Mr. CAHAN:

There is no doubt in my mind that the children of Canadian nationals born abroad should be deemed Canadian nationals. Two years ago, at the request of one of flip missionary societies of the Catholic church, and on representations made through

Supply-Secretary oj State

the missionary societies of the United church, the Presbyterian church and the Church of England in Canada, I prepared an amendment to the nationality act. It came before the house for discussion. Some objections were made and that bill was retired. Now, I am giving my personal opinion-

Mr. POWER:

I am soriy to say I believe I opposed that bill.

Mr. CAHAN:

Well, there was considerable opposition, and I thought it was a matter that should be dealt with by general consent rather than as a party measure and so I did not push the bill. But I think it must be dealt with. I remember the case to which the hon. gentleman refers, but no difficulty was encountered when the son of the Canadian agent at Geneva did return with his mother to Canada. I believe that due consideration is given in all such cases, but we might well consider an amendment to the law which would admit return as a matter of right.

Mr. POWER:

Do I understand the Secretary of State to say that as a matter of fact, under the legislation as we have it at the present time, the children of Canadian officials born abroad are not Canadian nationals, though he agrees that they should be?

Mr. CAHAN:

I think that under the law- I am now referring to the immigration law, in which I am not an expert-it is not absolutely clear that as a matter of right they may return, though it is clear that they have the right to return to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and do return there very often rather than run the risk of being rejected by the immigration authorities here.

Mr. POWER:

Strictly speaking, the Department of the Secretary of State for Canada would not have jurisidiction to grant them a passport?

Mr. CAHAN:

No.

Mr. POWER:

They would be obliged to

obtain a passport from the office in Great Britain?

Mr. CAHAN:

Passports are granted by

our own Department of External Affairs in Ottawa; to those who are abroad they are granted by consular officers of the United Kingdom who act on behalf of the Department of External Affairs. For example, when I was in Geneva a little over a year ago I came across a peculiar case. One day one of the young women employed as a stenographer in the Canadian office in that city

came back to the office very much embarrassed because she had been told by the British consul there that she had no right to return to Canada. It appears, as she explained the circumstances to me, that her parents were English and came to Montreal when she was a little girl two or three years of age, I have forgotten the exact age. The family continued their residence in Montreal. She grew up, was educated in the schools of that city, became quite an expert in stenography and was appointed to and employed in the Canadian office in Geneva. She had gone to Geneva with a Canadian passport. Some family affair necessitated her signing some documents and she went before the consular official to make this signature and some declaration in connection with it, when the consular official asked her how long she had been in Geneva. I think she said: About two years. He drew her attention to the fact that she had not reported to him in the meantime; that her passport showed that she had actually been born in Great Britain, and he told her that in his opinion she had no longer a right to Canadian nationality and a Canadian passport because she had not reported to him before the expiration of twelve months of her first term of sojourn in Geneva. Of course the young lady was great!}' distressed because she wanted to return to her parents in Canada. So on her behalf I wrote to the Under Secretary of State for External Affairs and I believe he took the matter up with the Immigration department with the result that assurance was given that the young lady could return to this country. Cases of that kind arise from time to time, I believe these rights should be clearly established by law and possibly after I have passed away, some successor, I hope, will have better success than I have had in attempting to clarify the situation.

Mr. MARCIL:

The minister was kind

enough to refer to the numerous men and women who during the last few years have been going as missionaries from Canada to the orient, some from the Church of England, others from the United Church of Canada, others from the Roman Catholic Church and so forth. Apparently, Canada is no longer a missionary field and we are sending missionaries abroad. Every year we see quite a number of men and women leaving Montreal to go to the foreign field. Have these people going abroad, especially to distressed parts such as the orient, been instructed, warned or notified by the department or have the heads of their churches been notified,

Supply-Secretary oj State

that they should be. naturalized or have something in their possession to show their nationality when they reach those foreign countries, because our present nationality is different from what it was in the old days. In those days we used to claim our British nationality. In 1910 I remember when I crossed over to France I wanted to rent an apartment, so I went to the police department and put down my nationality as French Canadian. The Frenchman struck that out and said to me: "You are English." That is the way in which the thing worked in those days. I said to him: "You do not encourage French Canadians in America by telling me I am English." I should like to know from the minister, in view of the large number of Canadians going into the foreign missionary fields, whether any steps are taken under our law to protect them?

Mr. CAHAN:

I cannot speak altogether

for the Department of External Affairs, but it is a fact that the great majority of those missionaries who go abroad representing the different Canadian churches, are natural born British subjects, born in Canada and therefore do not need naturalization. In the case of French Canadian missionaries abroad, if a missionary happened to have been born in France, coming to Canada later in life, particular pains are usually taken before he goes abroad to secure for him a certificate of naturalization and therefore a Canadian passport. In respect of Manchuria and China I think every effort has been made during these troublesome times to communicate to Canadian nationals such advice as may prove helpful for the protection of themselves and their families.

Mr. LUCHKOVICH:

I should like to ask a question of a different nature from those that have preceded mine. May I draw the attention of the minister to the Naturalization Act which states that any applicant must live in this country for five years and must also be able to understand either the French or the English language. In this country there is a very desirable class of people who have come here in middle age and who are unable to learn either French or English well enough to qualify themselves for citizenship. It oftens happens that some of these older applicants are refused certificates of naturalization on the ground that they cannot speak either language. They have all the virtues; they are industrious farmers or labourers and in every respect outside the fact that they cannot speak either English or French, they would make very desirable citizens of this country. On the other hand,

we have the applicant who can speak English almost as well as Shakespeare did, but who in all other respects would not make a very desirable citizen. I have been wondering whether some mitigating provision might not be afforded so far as the first type of applicants is concerned, because I believe they would make good citizens apart from the language qualification.

Mr. OAHAN:

I notice from the returns

which we receive from the courts of the provinces of the middle west that when these cases come before the judges, the latter sometimes exercise a certain leniency in giving their decisions whether the applicant is versed in English or French. From the reports I notice that if they can understand French or English sufficiently to know what is said to them and to make some reply in the ordinary way, the judges are quite lenient; but to change the law would require a substantive enactment of the parliament of Canada.

Mr. LUCHKOVICH:

Supposing somebody got on a judge's nerves and he refused to exercise that leniency?

Mr. HEAPS:

A very important point has

been raised by the hon. member for Vegre-ville. Cases have come to my attention of people who have been in the country twenty-five or thirty years, have attained the age of forty-five or fifty, but have lived in scattered districts where it has been practically impossible for them to become familiar with either the French or the English language. When they reach the age of seventy, without having obtained naturalization papers, and make applications for old age pensions, because of their inability to speak English they are practically barred from the benefits of the Old Age Pensions Act. These people have given good service to the country, and through no fault of their own find themselves unable to obtain naturalization. I wonder if it would not be possible in such instances, where a person has been a good citizen and has all the other qualifications to receive old age pension, that some discretionary powers might be vested in the minister whereby such people could become Canadian citizens and eligible for old age pension.

Mr. CAHAN:

That is not for me to

decide. I confess that one is moved to leniency in certain cases, but one is dealing with a substantive enactment of the law of this country. If my hon. friend will introduce an amendment along the lines he is now sug-

Supply-Secretary oj State

gesting it will receive the consideration of the house, but I cannot promise action will be taken.

Mr. HEAPS:

I am afraid of introducing

any amendment to any act of parliament; I have been rather unfortunate in regard to any bill I have tried to introduce. I feel as the minister felt a moment ago when he spoke of the leniency that a magistrate might show towards applicants for naturalization. My own understanding is that as a rule magistrates have been fairly strict in their interpretation of the law, and where a person, even of the age of seventy, who may have raised a large family in the country, has been unable to comply with the strict letter of the law, he has failed to obtain naturalization. This means considerable hardship in old age when they find themselves ineligible for old age pension. If the magistrate had some discretionary powers such cases might be dealt with considerately, but I find that as a rule magistrates claim they have no discretion, that the law is rigid. I feel that there should be some discretion vested somewhere to meet such situations.

Mr. LUCHKOVICH:

I think in the case

of elderly citizens such as I have referred to, who want to get naturalization papers, if their community or municipality, through the Secretary or councilmen, could show by letter or affidavit that the applicant was a desirable citizen even though he does not understand French or English, such a recommendation should have some weight with the judge who is hearing the application.

Mr. CAHAN:

I think if it were left to

the municipality it would be found in many cases that their position would be adverse to the applicant, because our office has received during the last three years many protests from municipalities against granting certificates of naturalization to those who do not understand well either the English or the French language. They insist that the granting of a certificate of naturalization imposes a heavier burden upon the municipality in respect of providing relief, which it is not prepared to meet. Therefore they have in many cases protested very strongly against making any concession to the alien who does not understand French or English.

Mr. LUCHKOVICH:

If the alien is able

to pay his taxes I do not see how it would be a burden on the municipality.