Mr. MICHAUD:
Before we disarm entirely I should like the minister to give me a little information with regard to the camps in New Brunswick. How many are there; when were they established; how many men are in each camp; what is the nature of the work being done and under whose management is each camp?
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
There are four camps in New Brunswick. One is at Blissville. That is a landing field, and the camp has been closed for the winter. There is another landing field at Upper Brockway; there are only six people there at the present time. At the municipal airport at Saint John there are 147. There has been an airport at Saint John for several years, and aircraft have had difficulty in landing in certain winds, so advantage is being taken of this opportunity to improve
lMr. Mullins.]
the field. At Coulter's Siding, which is a forestry project and which will be used for a training area, there are 482 men. These four camps are under the control of the district officer commanding at Saint John.
Mr. RALSTON:
I wonder if the minister could tell me just how much of this money is applicable to the relief camps?
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
Not a cent.
Mr. RALSTON:
But we have been talking about relief camps all evening.
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
I explained that
some of the officers paid under this vote were devoting their time to this work.
Mr. RALSTON:
About how much of this amount would be devoted to that work, $3,000 or $5,000?
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
There are about
thirty people concerned, and they would receive a total of about $30 a day from the unemployment vote.
Mr. RALSTON:
Then I take it that none of this money is to be used for that purpose?
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
Some of the officers who are detailed for full time work at the camps are paid by the department.
Mr. RALSTON:
Then perhaps $10,000 or $15,000 or $20,000 would be the contribution of the department?
Mr. SUTTHERLAND:
Yes.
Mr. RALSTON:
Would the minister tell me what has become of the item "manufacturing establishments" that we formerly had in this vote?
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
That is now joined up with "general stores"; that was done last year.
Mr. RALSTON:
And the item "transport and freight"?
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
The deputy tells me that is now under "general stores". I do not remember that as a separate item since I have been in the department.
Mr. RALSTON:
I mention this because the minister put on record some comparison of the figures for 1930-31 and the present figures. I have just made an analysis of those figures and I should like the committee to see what the analysis shows. I think the minister will agree with me that between 1931 and now there has been practically no reduction in this item.
Supply-Defence-Relief Camps
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
Quite so. In fact,
the two items, namely permanent force and non-permanent force, are only very slightly affected.
Mr. RALSTON:
The non-permanent is
reduced substantially, but the permanent vote is not reduced. Further, I do not think the minister needs to apologize for not having reduced that vote. It seems to me necessary that the permanent force vote should be kept up to the present amount. This is the point at which it has stood since 1930, anyway, and I think before that.
The minister spoke about a difference of $9,000,000. May I say that the real difference between the vote in 1931 and the present vote is that $5,000,000 was voted in 1931 for civil air operations, whereas at the present time there is a vote of only $187,000. In the fiscal year 1930-31, $1,600,000 additional was voted for naval services. Then there is a difference of about $2,000,000 in other items, the chief of which were transport and freight, and manufacturing services, which accounted for nearly $1,000,000, and the votes for nonpermanent militia services, cadet services and incidentals. So that the difference of $9,000,000 is made up of $5,000,000 in civil air operations, a vote which at the present time has been reduced to practically nothing. Then there was the extra vote of $1,600,000 for naval services, and $2,000,000 in connection with the non-permanent force particularly, and allied activities.
I shall have a word to say about aviation when the item proper is before the committee. I may add, however, that I am pleased indeed that the minister is undertaking the completion of these landing fields across Canada. I believe he will agree with me, however, when I say that his action is only the continuation of a policy which we have been endeavouring for a good many years to put into effect. It is providing the ground facilities for portions of the country which we could not cover before. As I understand it, these fields are being built, among other places, through Ontario and I presume, to the Manitoba boundary. That is a portion of the territory which before we were not able to cover on Canadian terrain with our aviation services. The service farther west was one which we had already completed and on which the air mail service was running. The lighting of landing fields had been carried out also.
I should like to add a word to what has been said by the hon. member for Vancouver Centre (Mr. Mackenzie) with which I think the minister thoroughly agrees, namely, that
our endeavour should be as fast as possible to get the personnel which is now out through the country back into active service so far as civil aviation is concerned. I understand the minister states that there may be a difference between military and civil aviation services, but so far in Canada we have been going farther in connection with civil aviation than we have in connection with military service. We have the personnel and we have the facilities; it is simply a matter of having the money. I am pleased to support any activity which looks forward to an increase in aviation services, because I believe hon. members realize that on the whole, in her *national development Canada has perhaps gone farther in aviation than any other country. It is a matter of pride to me that in past years we were able to vote something like $5,000,000 in connection with forestry patrol, geological surveys for mining work, fishery patrols and other services in order to develop our civil aviation. I believe the minister has that in mind, because I understand the other day he delivered an address in Toronto which showed he was familiar not only with the needs but with the possibilities of aviation in Canada.
Mr. HOWARD:
How much work has been done at Bishopton and up to date how much money has been expended?