Mr. SUTHERLAND:
That will have to be considered. I would not be in a position, really, to answer that question.
Mr. RALSTON:
When was the change
made? '
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
I think the change was made in the estimates two years ago. At that time both operations were in one estimate.
Mr. RALSTON:
No, they are still under separate votes.
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
They are at this
time; they were brought in in that way for purposes of clarification. But last year and the year before I think the hon. member will find that they appeared as one vote.
Mr. RALSTON:
I would hope that the line of communication and the chain of responsibility would follow the votes as indicated in numbers 82 and 83 of the estimates we are now discussing, and that at least civil aviation should report directly to the deputy minister. It seems to me it is a distinct branch.
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
Civil aviation does that.
Mr. RALSTON:
I must have misunderstood the minister. I understood him to say that they reported to the chief of general staff.
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
No; Mr. Wilson reports directly to the deputy minister.
Mr. RALSTON:
I misunderstood the minister. The position is that the chief of the Royal Canadian Air Force reports to the chief of the general staff but the head of the civil aviation branch, Mr. Wilson, reports to the deputy minister?
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
Yes.
Mr. SANDERSON:
I should -like to have some information in regard to item 79, naval, services. This vote is "to provide for the maintenance of the ships and establishments of the naval service, including the Royal Canadian Navy, the Royal Canadian Naval Reserve and the Royal Canadian Naval
Supply-Defence-Naval Services
Volunteer Reserve." I wonder if the minister would be good enough to tell the committee how many ships there are, and something about them. This is a large vote of over $2,000,000.
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
We have the
Saguenay, which is a destroyer on the eastern coast, and the Skeena, another destroyer on the western coast. These two boats are new, and were bought only recently.
Mr. SANDERSON:
At what cost?
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
About $3,000,000 for the two of them.
Mr. SANDERSON:
From whom were they purchased?
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
They were purchased in England, from Thornycroft's. Then, we have the Champlain and the Vancouver, which although older destroyers are in very good condition. Then there are two mine layers, the Festubert and the Armentieres. The first is at Halifax and the second at Esquimalt.
Mr. GIROUARD:
What is the tonnage of those destroyers and their operation costs per day?
Mr. SUTHERLAND:
The expenses for the year are: Saguenay, $256,000, Champlain,
$190,000, Festubert, $41,000, Skeena, $252,000, Vancouver, $183,000, Armentieres, $41,000.
Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):
What is the total personnel of the naval forces?