June 27, 1935

IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

I cannot agree with the hon. member for Lunenburg (Mr. Ernst) when he says that the leaving out of the words "and processing of" in clause (e) will mean that no one will be able to obtain a loan. That would just eliminate those whose sole occupation is the processing of fish. The way it is now a hardship is being placed upon the man in British Columbia who takes no part in the processing of the fish he catches. This should be limited to the taking of fish out of the water and then it would not hurt those who take out the fish and process them as well. This would eliminate the man working in a cannery or a reduction plant or the owner of such a plant. I do not suppose the government intends to include these, or if they do they should say so. I think the minister should give further consideration to this clause.

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
Permalink
CON

Grote Stirling (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of National Defence)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STIRLING:

It seems to me that "and" is the correct way of expressing this. The hon. member who has just spoken does not want to include those who process the fish but I understand that in other parts of Canada that is desirable. When the hon. member was speaking on the second reading he referred to this matter and stated that it would include the canneries but it does not [DOT] seem likely that a large canning establishment would want to make use of the small sum of money which would be available.

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
Permalink
IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

If the minister states that it is part of the government policy to lend money to people who process fish, I have no more to say. If it is the intention of the government to make loans to some casual labourer who works a few days shovelling coal or looking after the oil in a reduction plant, to some Indian woman or anyone else engaged in the processing of fish, we have not so understood it.

92582-256J

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. REID:

If you look at section 6 you will find that loans can be made only for certain specified purposes and those purposes do not include the processing of fish. Loans are made for the purpose of purchasing boats, equipment and so on.

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
Permalink

Section agreed to. On section 3-Powers of board.


IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

I do not suppose there is any use moving an amendment when the minister says he is not going to accept it. The temper of the committee this afternoon was certainly in the direction of asking the minister if he would allow loans to be made also on the security of gear.

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
Permalink
CON

William Gordon Ernst

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ERNST:

Clause 3 deals only with

bonds issued by the board.

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
Permalink
IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

It says that the board may:

(b) make long term loans to fishermen on the security of first mortgages on fisherman's lands.

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
Permalink
CON
IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

I accept the hon. member's

apology. The minister has not so far as I know expressed the opinion of himself or of his department or of the government on the representations made this afternoon in the direction of including the security of gear as well as land. I would like to hear whether he has determined to exclude gear.

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
Permalink
CON

Grote Stirling (Minister of Fisheries; Minister of National Defence)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STIRLING:

Mr. Chairman, when the government decided that it would be desirable to proceed along this line it was met with the difficulty which I presume has stood in the way of preceding governments in this matter: What should the security be? It has decided that it is prepared to go the distance of accepting as security land occupied or owned by the fishermen, but to introduce loans made on gear or on boats is to introduce loans made on something which may be destroyed and which in any event has a comparatively short life. The government therefore, after careful consideration, has decided in this measure to proceed so far as to offer loans to fishermen on the basis of their land.

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
Permalink
IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

That means that ninety per

cent of the would-be applicants will be cut out.

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
Permalink

Section agreed to. Sections 4 and 5 agreed to. 403S



Mortgage Credits jor Fishermen On section 6-Conditions for loans.


IND

Alan Webster Neill

Independent

Mr. NEILL:

What about the representations that have been made this afternoon that the amount loaned should be more than $1,000 in view of the fact that farmers with no more security can get $5,000?

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
Permalink
CON

Isaac Duncan MacDougall

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MACDOUGALL:

Are we clearly to

understand under clause 6 that there are really needy fishermen who need this assistance who are going to be excluded because they have no land to give as security for a mortgage? I may say to this committee that when I entered this house first in 1925 I was the first man from the province of Nova Scotia to advocate long term loans for fishermen. There was an act at that time which had been passed by a previous government extending long term loans to farmers, and I very strongly advocated then that loans be extended to fishermen both on the Pacific and Atlantic coasts, and I think I was supported in that contention by some other members from the province of Nova Scotia. I did not visualize at that time that we would have before any parliament this bill as it is now before this house. I am of the honest opinion that this bill will not help at least eighty per -cent of the shore fishermen of my province, if section 6 be not amended.

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
Permalink
LIB
CON

Isaac Duncan MacDougall

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MACDOUGALL:

The men who have capital and can carry on the fishing industry by themselves do not want to go into debt through long term loans or any other kind of loan. The man we want to help in Nova Scotda is the man who has practically nothing except the determination to follow a humble but honest calling. If section 6 is going to remain in this bill, then I say it is not very much of a bill. I am certainly in favour of the principle of extending long term loans to fishermen, and I am in favour of the principle of this bill, although it does not even say how long the loan is going to be for, but the bill should certainly be so framed that it will bring aid to those who need aid in the province of Nova Scotia and on the Pacific seaboard as well. So far as Nova Scotia is concerned, I still maintain the position I took before in this house, that more than long term loans, we want to see that the Nova Scotia fisherman has the right to live and that his prices are not dictated by monopolist control such as we have in the province of Nova Scotia. If a resolution that I placed on the order paper had been supported by this house the shore fishermen of Nova Scotia

would have been much better off under it than they will be under this particular bill.

I may also say that we want to encourage as much as we can all those fishermen in Nova Scotia who join their cooperative unions. I wish to say frankly that our position in Nova Scotia is this: If the fishermen who to-day are suffering from economic thraldom are going to be relieved we must break monopoly and give the fishermen a chance to live and encourage their cooperative unions. To my mind section 6 nullifies the full effect of the bill. I am sorry to have to say that.

Section stands.

Progress reported.

At six o'clock the Speaker resumed -the chair and the house took recess.

After Recess

The house resumed at eight o'clock.

Topic:   MORTGAGE CREDITS FOR FISHERMEN
Permalink

EIGHT HOUR DAY

MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE WITH RESPECT TO SENATE AMENDMENTS TO BILL NO. 21

June 27, 1935