Mr. GARDINER:

In the great majority

of instances this is not a matter of temporary work; the employees are still classified as temporary, and eventually some will become permanent. There may be a few of them who are doing temporary work, but some of these people classified as temporary employees have been on the staff for years.

Mr. ROWE (Dufferin):

How does the

minister hope to increase the service, how does he hope to increase inspection and take in new areas, adding 42 to the permanent staff, while reducing their transportation by $7,000 and reducing by $6,000 compensation for the reactors they inspect?

Mr. GARDINER:

My information is that

in connection with transportation, certain economies are possible which the department hopes to be able to make this year; and it will be easy, of course, in a service that requires the expenditure of some $423,000, to effect a saving of $7,000 in operating cost. That should not be difficult if the service is given proper supervision.

Mr. STIRLING:

Do the owners of cattle

that are tested pay fees for the service?

Mr. GARDINER:

No.

Mr. RYAN:

How many employees in New Brunswick are working in a temporary capacity, not under the Civil Service Act?

Mr. GARDINER:

I cannot give that information offhand but I could probably secure it.

Mr. WALSH:

Are there any regulations

with respect to these temporary employees? In my own district there are some temporary employees who have been acting as inspectors for at least two or three years. Are there governing the conditions of their temporary employment, any regulations which prevent them from becoming permanent employees of the department?

Mr. GARDINER:

As hon. members know, I am more or less new in the administration of a department at Ottawa. I have been accustomed to administering a department in which there is a definite line of demarcation; there comes a time when it is necessary for the government to consider whether they will keep certain persons on the staff or make them permanent. I find, however, that there is no such regulation here. I am told that it is difficult to establish a regulation of that kind in a service so extensive as the federal service. Departments depend to a large extent upon recommendations from the civil service commission.

Mr. RYAN:

Will the minister also give

me the number of temporary employees in New Brunswick, where they are working, and the names?

Mr. GARDINER:

The hon. member might put that question on the order paper if he wants all that information.

Supply-Trade and Commerce

Mr. STEWART:

I understood the minister to say that if the owner of a herd of cattle desires to have it established as accredited he must have five head of pure bred cattle in the herd; then the herd is tested and, if it is found free from tuberculosis, the owner receives a certificate that the herd is accredited. Is any compensation paid to the applicant for such a certificate for any cattle that may be destroyed in his herd?

Mr. GARDINER:

Yes, the same compensation as in all other cases.

Mr. PERLEY (Qu'Appelle):

If the minister cannot give the information I have asked for, he might allow the item to stand.

Mr. GARDINER:

It would be absolutely

impossible to bring down in committee the information requested by the hon. gentleman. If he will put a motion on the order paper I shall be more than pleased to submit all the information he asks for, but I am informed by the officials that it would take days to compile it.

Mr. WALSH:

I understand that in the

various packing houses and abattoirs there are two classes of inspectors, one a qualified veterinary and the other a lay inspector. Does the lay inspector come under the civil service commission or is he appointed by the minister?

Mr. GARDINER:

The lay inspector as

well as the veterinarian come under the civil service commission.

Mr. BARBER:

Do all veterinary surgeons in charge of these tests belong to the permanent service? In British Columbia how many under this item are there in the permanent service of the department?

Mr. GARDINER:

They are all in the

regular service, but they may be classed as either permanent or temporary in accordance with what I said a moment ago.

Mr. BARBER:

How many are there in

the permanent service in British Columbia?