Mr. STEWART:

Would the minister explain the items that go to make up the decrease in this appropriation? Have any services been discontinued?

Hon. C. D. HOWE (Minister of Railways and Canals):

The items are as follows:

Salaries of staff, $185,000.

Official reporting, including amount of reporting contract, $4,800, $8,800.

Official car, operation and maintenance, $3,000.

Printing, $5,000.

Stationery, $4,000.

Telegraph and telephone, $1,000.

Travelling expenses of board and staff, $18,000.

Contingencies, $4,568.

I may say that while there is a reduction of $15,854.04 from the amount voted last year, the amount actually expended last year was about $11,000 less than the amount voted; in other words the amount expended last year was $234,854.04.

Mr. STEWART:

There is some reduction

in connection with the car. How is it proposed to bring that about?

Mr. HOWE:

The expense of the car is

entirely a matter of its use, and it is not anticipated that the car will be used as much this year as it was last.

Mr. STEWART:

There is a decrease of

$13,500 in this item. Would the minister explain, for the information of the committee, what is covered by this expression " Miscellaneous services"?

Mr. HOWE:

There is a decrease of $1,500

in administration expenses. There is a decrease of $2,000 in the maintenance and repair of official government cars. There is a decrease of $5,000 in repairs and alterations to the governor general's cars. There is a decrease of $6,000 in Beauhamois surveys and investigations, due to the abolition of the position of resident engineer, and a further decrease of $800 due to the abolition of the board allowance for the resident engineer. Then there is an increase for Beauhamois surveys and investigations, amounting to $1,800, to provide for carrying out flow measurements by head office. That makes up the net decrease of $13,500.

Mr. HEAPS:

I believe this is the item

that deals with the employees' provident fund. Would the minister be good enough to explain to the committee the position of this fund, how many employees are affected and how long he expects to continue paying out this money?

Mr. HOWE:

The number of retired employees in receipt of pensions is 1,764. Employees contributing to the fund during September, 1935, the latest figures available, numbered 8,603.

Mr. HEAPS:

Do I understand that this is a contributory fund in which the employees and the railways participated?

Mr. HOWE:

This is the Intercolonial fund, and it is contributory. I will give my hon. friend the explanation. The Intercolonial and Prince Edward Island railway employees' provident fund provides for the payment to retired employees of a monthly allowance of one and one-half per cent for each year of service of the average monthly salary received by each employee for the eight years immediately preceding his retirement, such monthly allowance to be not less than $20. Because of the fact that the cost of living greatly increased after the passing of the act in 1907, the minimum rate of $20 per month was found to be inadequate, great hardship and even privation being suffered by those who had retired under the provisions of the act at that minimum rate. For the purpose of affording a measure of relief to these former employees of the crown an appropriation has been provided in the parliamentary estimates since 1921 to make the minimum pension allowance $30 instead of $20 per month as provided by the provident fund. That is the purpose of this vote, to increase that payment of $20 to $30 to meet the increased cost of living.

Mr. HEAPS:

It seems to me, just from the casual statement made by the minister, that approximately one-eighth of the employees are on pension. Could the minister inform the committee as to the state of the fund on an actuarial basis?

Mr. HOWE:

This is only one of several funds of the Canadian National Railways. It is a fund of the old Intercolonial. It is a closed fund, closed a number of years ago. The purpose of this vote is to raise the minimum payment from $20 to $30 per month.

Mr. HEAPS:

I think the minister stated a few minutes ago that something like eight thousand employees are still paying into the fund.

Mr. HOWE:

That is correct.

Mr. HEAPS:

I was under the impression that it was from moneys contributed by the present employees, plus the amount given by the government, that the existing pensioners were deriving the benefit. Now I am told that the fund has been closed. I should like to have that point cleared up.

Mr. HOWE:

It is closed to new entrants. The people who are in the fund are still contributing and will contribute until they become pensioners themselves.