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February 21, 1936

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEES

Hon. J. C. ELLIOTT (Postmaster General) presented the report of the special committee appointed to prepare and report lists of members to compose the select standing committees of the house, as follows: PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS Messieurs: Anderson Beaubien Bennett Bertrand (Laurier) Both well Cahan Campbell Chevrier (Ottawa)

Factor Fleming Fournier (Hull) Gariepy Hall Lawson Maclnnis Mackenzie (Vancouver) MoCuaig McLarty McNiven (Regina) Massey Pouliot Power Ryan Sinclair Slaght Thorson Turgeon-29. Kuhl (Quorum 10)

RAILWAYS, CANALS AND TELEGRAPH LINES

Messieurs: Barber MacKinnon Beaubier (Edmonton) Bertrand (Laurier) MacMillan Brown McCann Cameron (Hastings) McCulloch Cameron (Cape Breton) Mclvor Clark (York-Sunbury) McKay Crerar McKinnon (Kenora) Damude McNiven (Regina City) Deslauriers Marcil Duffus Maybank Dupuis Mercier Edwards Mills Elliott (Kindersley) Mullins Emmerson Mutch Girouard O'Neill Gladstone Parent (Terrebonne) Grant Pelletier Hamilton Pouliot Hansell Ross (Moose Jaw) Hanson St-Pere Harris Stevens Heaps Stewart Howden S freight Hushion Sylvestre Isnor Vien Jean Walsh Johnston (Bow River) Wermenlinger Lockhart White Maclnnis Wood Young-60. (Quorum 20) MISCELLANEOUS PRIVATE BILLS Messieurs: Ahearn Barry Boulanger Bradette Brasset Brown Chevrier (Stormont) Clarke (Rosedale) Cleaver Coldwrell Deachman Douglas Dubois Evans Fair Ferguson Ferland Gariepy Girouard Glen Goulet Hov'ard Hyndman Johnston (Bow River) Lacombe Lacroix (Quebec-Montmorency) Lalonde Little Lockhart MacDonald (Brantford) Standing Committees

MacLennan Robichaud Maephail Ross (St. Paul's) McDonald (Souris) Senn McGeer Sinclair McGregor Taylor (Nanaimo) McPhee Telford Mercier Verville Mulock Wilton Parent (Quebec Winkler West and South) Pottier Young-50. (Quorum 15) BANKING AND COMMERCE Messieurs: Baker Lawson Bennett MacDonald Blair (Brantford) Cahan Mackenzie (Vancouver) Clark (York-Sunbury) McGeer Coldwell McLarty D each man McPhee Donnelly Mallette Dubuc Martin Duff Maybank Dunning Moore Edwards Perley (Qu'Appelle) Euler Perras Fiset, Sir Eugene Plaxton Fontaine Quelch Fournier (Hull) Raymond Fraser Ross (Middlesex) Harris Rutherford Hill Stevens Howard Thorson Hushion Tucker Jacobs Vien Jaques Ward Kinley White Lacroix (Beauce) Landeryou Woodsworth-50. (Quorum 15) PUBLIC ACCOUNTS Messieurs: Ahearn Graydon Anderson Leader Barry MacKinnon Beaubien (Edmonton) Betts MacNeil Black (Chateauguay) McCann Blais McDonald (Pontiac) Blanchette McKinnon (Kenora) Bothwell McLean (Melfort) Brooks Marshall Cameron Mullins (Cape Breton) Needham Casselman Patterson Church Purdy Douglas Rickard Dussault Rowe (Athabaska) Elliott (Kindersley) Slaght Factor Stewart Ferland Streight Fleming Taylor (Norfolk) Fournier Thauvette (Maisoniieuve) Tremblay Fraser Turgeon Glen Verville Golding Wermenlinger Goulet Grant Wood-50. (Quorum 15) AGRICULTURE AND COLONIZATION Messieurs: Beaubien MacKinnon Beaubier (Edmonton) Bertrand (Prescott) MacLean (Prince) Black (Chateauguay) Maephail Bouchard MacRae Boulanger McKenzie (Lambton) Casselman McLean (Melfort) Clark (Essex) McNevin (Victoria) Cleaver Mitchell Cochrane Motherwell Coldwell Needham Davidson Patterson Donnelly Perley (Qu'Appelle) Douglas Reid Dubois Rennie Dupuis Rheaume Evans Roberge Fafard Robichaud Fontaine Ross (Middlesex) Fraser Ross (Moose Jaw) Furniss Rowe (Dufferin) Gardiner Senn Golding Spence Gosselin Stirling Graydon Taylor (Norfolk) Hayhurst Thompson Lacombe Tomlinson Lalonde Turner Leader Ward Leclerc Weir-60. Lennard (Quorum 20) STANDING ORDERS Messieurs: Baker MeCuaig Barry Plaxton Bertrand (Prescott) Poole Brunelle Pottier Denis Rowe (Dufferin) Fleming Rutherford Heaps Thauvette Isnor Thompson Jacobs Turgeon Leclerc Turner-20. (Quorum 8)

MARINE AND FISHERIES

Messieurs: Brasset McDonald (Souris) Brooks Marcil Brunelle Michaud Clark (Essex) Neill Duff Pelletier Farquhar Plunkett Ferron Pottier Fiset, Sir Eugene Reid Gauthier Rickard Green Ryan Hanson Stirling Hill Taylor (Nanaimo) Kinley Telford Lapointe (Matapedia) Tomlinson MacLean (Prince) Tustin MacNeil Veniot MacNicol Ward-35. McCulloch (Quorum 10) Bureau for Translations MINES, FORESTS AND WATERS THE LIBRARY Messieurs: (Members to act on the part of the Commons) Black (Yukon) Johnston (Bow River) Mr. Speaker and Messieurs:Blais Lacroix (Beauce) Blackmore MacKinnon (Edmonton)Bradette Little MacNeilCampbell MacKenzie (Neepawa) Blanchette Macphail, MissCochrane MacLennan Bouchard MalletteCrerar MacMillan (Mackenzie) Cameron (Hastings) Parent (Terrebonne)Crete MaeNieol Chevrier (Ottawa) RaymondEsling McDonald (Pontiac) Duffus ReidFarquhar O'Neill Emmerson RennieFerguson Parent (Quebec Hvndman WalshGreen West and South) Johnston (Lake Centre) Winkler-21. Hamilton Patterson Lennard Hanson Plunkett Hartigan Roberge Mr. ELLIOTT (Middlesex) moved that the Hayhurst Hill Stevens Svlvestre report be concurred in. Hurtubise Taylor (Nanaimo) Motion agreed to. Hyndman Tremblay-35. (Quorum 10) POWERS OF COMMITTEES

INDUSTRIAL AND INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS

LIB

John Campbell Elliott (Postmaster General)

Liberal
Member File Biography @ PARLINFO

Hon. J. C. ELLIOTT (Postmaster General) moved:

Messieurs:

Barry Maclnnis

Betts MacKenzie (Neepawa)

Black (Yukon) MaeNieol

Blackmore Macphail, Miss

Church McGeer

Crete McIntosh

Deslauriers Mclvor

Dubuc McKay

Gladstone McLean (Simcoe)

Grant Martin

Hartigan Massey

Hill Neill

Howard Perley, Sir George

Howden Perras

Isnor Rogers

Jean Rowe (Athabaska)

Lacroix (Quebec- St-Pere

Montmorency) Tucker-35. (Quorum 10) DEBATES Messieurs:

Chevrier McIntosh

Esling McNevin (Victoria)

Finn Marcil

Gauthier Perley, Sir George

Hall Pouliot

MacKinnon (Edmonton) Ryan-12.

(Quorum 7)

Topic:   INDUSTRIAL AND INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
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PRINTING

(Members to act on the part of the Commons) Messieurs: Chevrier (Stormont) Damude Denis Dussault Ferron Hansell Hurtubise Hushion McIntosh McKenzie (Lambton) Mills Muloek Purdy Ross (St. Paul's) Taylor (Nanaimo) Tustin Lapointe (Matapedia) Veniot MacKinnon (Edmonton) Weir MacLean (Prince) Wilton-23. McGregor That the select standing committees of this house shall severally be empowered to examine and inquire into all such matters and things as may be referred to them by the house and to report from time to time their observations and opinions thereon, with power to send for persons, papers and records. Motion agreed to.

CANADA-UNITED STATES TRADE AGREEMENT

LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal
Member File Biography @ PARLINFO

Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):

I desire to lay on the table copies in English and in French of a tabulated statement of tariff changes under the Canada-United States trade agreement, signed at Washington on November 15, 1935.

Topic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES TRADE AGREEMENT
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BUREAU FOR TRANSLATIONS

PROPOSED BILL TO REPEAL 24-25 GEORGE V, 1934, CHAPTER 25, RULED OUT OF ORDER

On the order for introduction of bills: Mr. Pouliot-bill intituled "An act to repeal 24-25 George V (1934), chapter 25, an act respecting the Bureau for Translations."
LIB

Walter Edward Foster (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal
Member File Biography @ PARLINFO

Mr. SPEAKER:

With reference to this bill, I suspended my decision yesterday, and I have considered this matter most carefully and am prepared to render decision in the matter.

There are only two clauses to this bill:

1. Chapter 25 of 24-25 George V is hereby repealed.

2. Hereinafter each translator shall be under the head of the department concerned.

Under standing order 76, every clause of a bill must be considered by the committee of the house in its proper order. If clause 1 of the proposed bill were passed, the result would automatically be the abolition of the positions

Bureau for Translations

of nearly all the translators in the civil service, as they have been practically all absorbed by the bureau for translations.

When the house would reach clause 2 of the bill, there would be no bureau for translations. New appointments would have to be made if each department were to do its own translating. Clause 2 therefore provides for the appointment of additional civil servants. Such a bill cannot be introduced by a private member. Its introduction must be moved by a minister of the crown on the recommendation of the governor general, and it must be preceded by a resolution in committee of the whole.

I may quote as a precedent a ruling of Mr. Speaker Rhodes who on May 17, 1918, decided that a motion to amend a bill so as to provide for the appointment of additional government officials is out of order as it involves an increased grant of public money.

On March 17, 1933, Mr. Jean moved for leave to introduce a bill to amend the Bankruptcy Act so as to provide for a joint superintendent of bankruptcy. Mr. Speaker Black moved it out of order on the ground that the bill provided for the appointment of an official and would therefore entail a charge upon the revenue. Such legislation, he stated, could be introduced only by a minister on the approval of the crown.

Another element which places this measure in the category of money bills is that its adoption would mean the transfer of the authority under which appropriated money is to be spent. The translators' salaries have been voted as part of the estimates of the Secretary of State's department. This was done by resolution in committee of supply and it was subsequently embodied in the appropriation bill. When money is voted, the main conditions imposed on its expenditure are embodied in resolutions. All the circumstances concerning its destination form part of the appropriation with which they are considered, and if any alteration is to be made it must be by the same process as the original resolution.

A money bill is defined in the British house as a public bill which contains only provisions dealing with, inter alia, the "custody" of public money. The custody is undoubtedly the placing of an appropriation under a certain minister. The translators' salaries, which cannot be separated from the proposed bill, have been placed in the custody of the Secretary of State, and the bill provides that it be given to several other ministers.

Sir Wilfrid Laurier. speaking on an alleged money bill in the session of 1911-12 (Hansard, column 3633-3641), said:

The time when we should dispose of the manner in which the money is to be expended is when the money is appropriated and therefore it should be first of all introduced by resolution where any objections which may properly be urged against the resolution should be urged.

This opinion of Laurier goes to show that the circumstances under which an expenditure is to be made are indivisible from that expenditure. The choice of the minister responsible for paying out the money is a material condition of an appropriation, and in order to change it the house would have to amend the principal clauses of a money bill.

I am therefore of the opinion that the proposed measure has all the earmarks of a money bill and cannot be introduced by a private member. I declare it out of order.

Topic:   BUREAU FOR TRANSLATIONS
Subtopic:   PROPOSED BILL TO REPEAL 24-25 GEORGE V, 1934, CHAPTER 25, RULED OUT OF ORDER
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ELECTIONS AND FRANCHISE

APPOINTMENT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE TO STUDY AND REPORT ON AMENDMENTS TO ELECTIONS AND FRANCHISE ACTS

February 21, 1936