Mr. SPENCE:

There is another large increase in this item and perhaps the minister could give us some explanation.

Mr. GARDINER:

The particulars are:

Salaries, permanent $ 5,142

Salaries, temporary 6,187

Wages 1,110

Telephone, telegraph and postage.. 560

Equipment, including supplies and

materials 3,310

Buildings and lands, including rents

and taxes 150

Freight, express and cartage. .... 190

Travelling expenses 8,033

3018 COMMONS

Supply-Agriculture-Plant Inspection

Mr. STIRLING:

What care is being

taken at our ports of entry to prevent tourists and travellers bringing in fruit which might contain dangerous insects?

Mr. GARDINER:

There are men located

at the important ports where the traffic is heavy to check fruit plants that might be subject to disease. At points where men are not located, the customs officials cooperate in checking everything that enters. If there is necessity to refer anything for further inspection, this is done.

Mr. STIRLING:

Are we as stringent on

this side of the line as they are in the United States? I am thinking particularly of the state of Washington. I was referring to the small parcels of fruit that the tourist might have in his car. He may eat some of this and then throw the rest away.

Mr. GARDINER:

There is practically the same condition prevailing in connection with fruit as there is in connection with animals. We have reciprocity with the federal government of the United States as far as regulations are concerned, but the regulations put out by the different states might not conform exactly with ours.

Mr. STEVENS:

Would this item cover

the inspection of containers such as sacking and other things of that kind?

Mr. GARDINER:

Wrappings and that

kind of thing are taken care of by the inspection under the health of animals vote. That inspection is carried on to prevent the entry of foot and mouth disease and diseases of that kind which might be carried in on the wrappings of plants.

Mr. STEVENS:

That item passed, I understand.

Mr. GARDINER:

Yes.

Mr. STEVENS:

Would the minister permit me to make one very brief observation?

Mr. GARDINER:

Certainly.

Mr. STEVENS:

I am not complaining about the officials of the department doing their duty. I think it is very necessary and very desirable to guard against the entry of materials in the form of wrappers or packing for any class of goods that may contain disease from some other country. But a case came to my attention recently, and I could cite a number of them, where I think the department by cooperating with the importer could quite effectually safeguard our country against the inroads of disease, and at the same time not put the importer to such a

fMr Gardiner.]

very great expense as he is sometimes forced to incur. To give one illustration, some bauxite, the raw material for aluminum, was shipped to 'Canada in sacks from a country which I think was classed as infected, and the importer was forced to send the shipment back to Great Britain, I think it was, and .to have it resacked in new sacks, and brought out again. There was another case a few years ago which I mention just to illustrate my point; some cotton came in, wrapped in burlap, and a similar dispute arose. My suggestion to the minister is not that there should be relaxation of the necessary precautions, but that in such a case the importer might be permitted to repack the goods on the wharf, and the packings that came in could be destroyed; in other words, that some effort be made to minimize the loss to the importer, while at the same time adequately safeguarding the health of the animals of this country by preventing the inroads of disease from some other country. I believe that a good deal could be done along that line.

Mr. GARDINER:

I can only say that there are countries which are ravaged by disease like foot and mouth disease, countries which if we had an outbreak of foot and mouth disease would probably put an embargo on our cattle for as many years as it was maintained at one time previously in our history. We must be very careful in connection with shipments that come in from a country so infected. A few shipments have come in, in second-hand gunny sacks which had been used for some other purpose before, in contravention of the well-known regulations. It has been considered advisable to have such shipments returned and not allowed to enter this country at all. The department is very exacting about that, and I do not know that it would pay us to remove any of these restrictions. We would be running the chance of suffering very great inconvenience ourselves in a very short time just to accommodate one or two individuals.

Mr. STEVENS:

I think if the importer were put to the trouble and expense and delay of repacking .the goods and destroying the containers right on the wharf it would be a sufficient penalty to make him more careful next time; but a rigid enforcement of the law, compelling the importer to ship back the whole thing, might seriously affect business in other lines, and sometimes the shipment may have come in quite innocently so far as the importer is concerned. The exporter in a foreign country cannot possibly be as familiar with our regulations as the importer on this side, or know how exacting the department

Supply-Agriculture-Seed Control

is, and there are bound to be cases where there may seem to be a disregard of the regulations but where there was no intention of breaking them at all. I do submit that with a little cooperation the loss to the importer could be minimized and other lines of business not seriously injured, as they well might 'be by a rigid adherence to the regulations.

Mr. GARDINER:

I am informed that there is a good deal of cooperation and that every case is considered on its merits. There are cases where the very thing my hon. friend suggests is being carried out, but there are other cases where conditions perhaps are such at the point where the goods came from that we do not want our own officials or anybody here to handle the commodity at all, and where it is returned for repacking. There is a great deal of risk taken in connection with such a shipment. The number of cases such as my hon. friend mentions must be very limited, but I shall be glad to take into consideration what he has said.

Mr. STEVENS:

I have heard of a goodly number of such cases.

Mr. EDWARDS:

What progress has been made in the control of the corn borer in western Ontario?

Mr. GARDINER:

There has been considerable improvement since the days when the farmers in that section were considering going out of growing corn because of the corn borer, but the greater part of that work is done by the provincial government. They ask for assistance from us through services that we can give through this branch, and that assistance is given in cooperation with them. But the main activity is carried on by the provincial government.

Mr. BARBER:

Can the minister tell us something about the control methods that have been adopted in regard to the pea moth? In the lower mainland of British Columbia there has been a considerable loss because of the depredations of the pea moth; in fact, they cannot grow peas at all in that section. I should like to know what is being done to control this pest.