Mr. F. E. LENNARD (Wentworth):

I should like to call the attention of the government to the antiquated elevators we have in this building. It is about time they were replaced with safer and more modern equipment.

Hon. P. J. A. CARDIN (Minister of Public Works):

I shall have the hon. gentleman's observations taken into consideration, but I wish to have the benefit of his information on the subject.

Mr. C. G. MacNEIL (Vancouver North):

Will the Prime Minister indicate at the earliest possible da}7, not necessarily to-day, whether the house will be placed in possession of copies of the evidence and the argument heard before the commissioner during the inquiry into the Bren machine gun contract?

Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):

I may answer my hon.

friend at once. I shall be very glad to lay on the table of the house the evidence and the argument in connection with the Bren gun inquiry. They are in the possession of the government and I shall have them tabled tomorrow.

Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):

Before the special order- is called I should like to make a statement to the house. Hon. members have doubtless seen reports in the press to the effect that the government had refused the privilege of broadcasting to the publisher of one of Canada's leading newspapers. I simply wish to say that the government has had nothing whatever to do with refusing any application that has been made to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. Neither the government nor any member of the government had any knowledge that an application had been made to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation by the publisher of one of Toronto's leading newspapers, nor had any member of the government any knowledge that such an application had been refused.

As hon. members know, the business of controlling and regulating radio broadcasting has been placed by this parliament under the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, which is an autonomous public body and with which the government does not interfere and has no desire to interfere. The general manager of the corporation has issued to the press a statement which gives a full explanation of

rMr. Cardin.]

the application itself and the grounds on which it was refused. I have in my hand a copy of the statement and if hon. members will take it as read I shall place it on the table that it may be printed in Hansard with the remarks I have made. The statement is one which, I think, will be of interest to hon. members.

CBC Statement given to the Press by Mr. Gladstone Murray, General Manager of the CBC, January 15th, 1939.

Mr. George McCullagh applied to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation to buy time for a series of broadcast talks on the national network of the Corporation in order to give his views on public questions. The application was refused in accordance with the policy of the Corporation in dealing with controversial broadcasts. This policy is based on the principle of encouraging the free discussion of all subjects of public interest in round-table discussions, debates, talks, and forums, for which the Corporation provides time without charge. No individual may purchase any network to broadcast his own opinions and no profit-making corporation may purchase any network to broadcast opinions. Par from being a restraint on free speech, the Corporation's policy is an assurance that liberty of discussion is preserved, that all main points of view are fairly presented, and that the possession of wealth does not confer the right to use network broadcasting to influence opinion.

Having failed to secure time on the national network Mr. McCullagh attempted to buy time over a network of privately-owned stations. As all network broadcasting in Canada is under the control of the Corporation, under the specific authority of the Canadian Broadcasting Act of 1936, the permission of the Corporation would have been required to give effect to the new plan. As the same general principle in controversial broadcasts applies to all networks in Canada, the second application was also refused.

Mr. McCullagh had already been invited to participate in the Corporation's Sunday evening National Forum at no cost to him. Mr. McCullagh declined the invitation, which, however, remains open.

The Corporation's decision and the reasons for it were communicated to Mr. McCullagh in a letter, dated January 5th, which is now released for publication.

The decision was taken by the Corporation on its own responsibility in accordance with the policy laid down by the Board of Governors.

It is pointed out that the Corporation's policy regarding this class of network broadcasting is similar to that of the National Broadcasting Company of the United States.

On the same date Mr. Gladstone Murray released the following letter to Mr. McCullagh: Ottawa, Ontario

January 5th, 1939.

Dear Mr. McCullagh:

Thank you for your letter of the 4th instant. I shall be glad to set out fully the reasons why the corporation was obliged to reject your application to purchase network time for the purpose of placing your views on public questions before the listeners of Canada.

Radio-Broadcasting Privileges

In order that the answer may be complete, it is necessary to indicate the origin and evolution of the policy upon which it is based.

As you know, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation was established by act of parliament as a non-partisan public trust to control all broadcasting in Canada in the public interest. In accordance with this purpose the corporation was endowed with exclusive control of all network broadcasting and with a general responsibility for the character and content of all programs.

The relevant provisions of The Canadian Broadcasting Act, 1936, respecting the control and direction of network broadcasting are paragraphs 21 and 22, as follows:

"21. No private station shall operate in Canada as a part of a chain or network of stations except with the permission of, and in accordance with the regulations made by the corporation.

"22. (1) The corporation may make regulations :

(a) to control the establishment and operation of chains or networks of stations in Canada."

The relevant provisions of the act relating to the corporation's control of all matter broadcast in Canada is section 22 (1) (c), (d), and (e) as follows:

"22 (1) The corporation may make regulations :

(c) to control the character of any and all programs broadcast by corporation or private stations;

(d) to determine the proportion of time which may be devoted to advertising in any programs broadcast by the stations of the corporation or by private stations, and to control the character of such advertising;

(e) to prescribe the proportion of time which may be devoted to political broadcasts by the stations of the corporation and by private stations, and to assign such time on any equitable basis to all parties and rival candidates."

I have deliberately set out the above provisions in order to indicate the intentions of parliament. That the authority vested in the corporation has been exercised as intended is perhaps best illustrated by the following quotation from the report of the parliamentary committee on broadcasting of 1938:

"The bulk of the evidence concerned the program, technical and financial policies of the corporation. Your committee is of the opinion that these policies are well designed to carry out the purpose for which the corporation was created. Your committee is also of the opinion that the policies of the corporation are being executed in a business-like fashion."

Now, a brief outline of CBC policy respecting the discussion of public problems and issues and the position generally in the related fields of party political, and non-party controversial broadcasting.

On the first point, the Broadcasting Act, as you know, requires the corporation to prescribe regulations for all broadcasting, both on privately owned and CBC stations. No censorship is imposed, restrictions being confined to those specifically set out in the regulations. The policy of the corporation is to encourage the fair presentation of controversial questions which indeed is regarded as part of the educational function. To this end there are organized

round tables, talks, discussions, debates, commentaries and forums, distributed through CBC stations and networks. Moreover, facilities have been provided on a sustaining basis for organizations such as the Canadian Association of Adult Education and the Workers' Educational Association. Individual privately owned stations are encouraged to discharge similar public service on a local basis.

With regard to party political broadcasting during elections, new arrangements under consideration will aim to have issues and policies placed more adequately before the whole electorate. Individual privately owned and C'BC stations will remain commercially obtainable to rival parties and candidates, subject to the relevant provisions of The Canadian Broadcasting Act and the regulations issued thereunder.

With respect to party political broadcasting between elections, any legal political party may purchase time either on networks or individual stations. Non-party statements of political leaders of sufficient general interest are carried by the corporation on a sustaining basis.

Rulings recently approved by the board of governors regarding the sponsorship of nonparty controversial broadcasts are as follows:

"(1) No individual may purchase any network to broadcast his own opinions;

(2) No profit-making corporation may purchase any network to broadcast opinions;

(3) Properly constituted societies may purchase network time subject to the following condition: (a) that the society accepts

responsibility for the broadcast, indemnifying the CBC against the possible consequences of libel or slander; (b) that each broadcast is prefaced and concluded by an appropriate announcement making clear the nature and auspices of the broadcast and indicating that equivalent facilities are available to opposing views on the same basis; (c) that there is no interference with normal CBC program arrangements; (d) that the broadcast is of sufficient popular appeal and interest to justify its inclusion; (e) that the broadcast is within the wording and spirit of our regulations and not in violation of any law."

These rulings, which apply also to individual CBC stations, but not to individual privately owned stations, were the subject of the most careful consideration. The admission of the right of an individual to buy network time to propound views would entail, for example, the approval of (a) the representative of a profitmaking corporation influencing public policy in favour of his corporation; (b) a profit-making corporation using opinions as a direct or indirect sales medium; and (c) an individual sponsoring his own opinions by virtue of the advantage of wealth.

Nothing in the above is of course intended to suggest that the ordinary commercial facilities, network or local, are not available to the Globe and Mail as to any other reputable company.

I hope you will excuse the length of this letter. I felt that you would understand the reasons for the decision I was obliged to take if I were to set out the general background.

I still hope that you will feel inclined to consider my suggestion that you participate in occasional programs, forums or otherwise, arranged by us. We are most anxious to make

The Address-Mr. Matthews

available to our listeners the views of Canadians with a real contribution to make to the solution of our many national problems.

Yours sincerely,

Gladstone Murray, .

General Manager.

George McCullagh, Esq.,

President,

The Globe and Mail Publishing Company, Toronto, Ontario.

Mr. MANION:

The statement has already been published in the press?

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

Yes, but I thought it would be of interest to hon. members to have it on Hansard.

Mr. MANION:

I merely wanted to know whether it was the statement published in the press by the chairman.

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

Yes, my hon. iriend is right.

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

May we not have the assurance of the Prime Minister that the government will stand behind the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in this matter?