March 31, 1939

LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. MARTIN:

Who said that?

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
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CON

James Earl Lawson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAWSON:

The hon. member need not stop me to ask who said that. It is a statement which has been frequently made. I am not making it; I am simply saying that it has been made, and I believe my hon.

Foreign Policy-Mr. Lawson

friend knows that that is so. With that statement, I wish to make it clear, I do not agree. I believe that my French fellow-Canadians have more to gain by keeping Canada as an integral part of the British empire than have any other group or class of people in this country.

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. MARTIN:

Canada would not be in the empire if it were not for French Canada.

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
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CON

Robert Henry McGregor

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. McGREGOR:

The hon. member is looking for an argument.

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
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CON

James Earl Lawson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAWSON:

It might surprise my hon. friend that I agreed with him.

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. MARTIN:

Sir Robert Borden said that, too.

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
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CON

James Earl Lawson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAWSON:

I do not know who said it, but I agree with him, because I still have some recollection of the history of early days in this country when, upon an invasion from the United States, the French Canadian habitants-if I may so call them, as they were then-true habitants, went out poorly armed, many with only pitchforks and axes instead of muskets, and fought for the maintenance of Canada as an integral part of the great British empire.

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

- On two occasions.

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
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CON

James Earl Lawson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAWSON:

I hope the Prime Minister will not ask me to make this a lesson in history.

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
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LIB

William Lyon Mackenzie King (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I said they did it on two occasions.

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
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CON

James Earl Lawson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAWSON:

I made the statement that I thought my French fellow-Canadians had a greater interest than almost any other class in maintaining Canada as an integral part of the British empire. Why? The French Canadians have many minority rights and many minority privileges in this country established by Great Britain, or as it then was, England and Scotland. I think they realize just as well as any other Canadian that every right or privilege has attached to it a corresponding responsibility. When people fail to discharge the. responsibilities attached to rights and privileges, history teaches us that those, rights and privileges are soon lost.

If we were to become part and parcel of the United States, how long do you think our separate scjjpoj system, maintained by public money, by public taxation, would survive? If We became part and parcel of the United States, does anyone seriously believe that Hie French language would ever be made an official language of: the congress of the United

States? No. Mr. Speaker, I think my fellow-French Canadians realize that they have more to preserve than almost any other class of people in this country, and I have sufficient faith in them to know and to believe that they will stand just as firmly as I, an Anglo-Saxon Canadian, for the maintenance of Canada as part and parcel of the British empire.

If that be so, let us face the situation frankly, that we cannot be part of this empire in peace and not be part of it in war. We cannot be in the empire and out of the empire at the same time. I am confident that the United Kingdom will never wage a war of aggression; I am confident that any war in which the United Kingdom may engage will be a war of defence. In view of what I have previously suggested might be the result of the defeat of the United Kingdom, surely it must be realized that there might come a time when, having regard to the conditions and the circumstances of a war in which the United Kingdom might be engaged, having regard to the exigencies of that moment, Canada's line of defence might be not in Canada, but upon a foreign soil. How then, I ask, can we now determine the extent to which Canada will participate in a future war in which the empire may be engaged?

We all want peace. Chamberlain wants peace. That has been clearly and amply demonstrated. But Chamberlain, with a knowledge of dictators, with a knowledge of European affairs, has in effect asked where we in Canada stand in respect to the empire. May I quote from the speech of Prime Minister Chamberlain at Birmingham, England, on March 17, 1939, two short paragraphs:

No greater mistake could be made than to suppose that this nation has so lost its fibre that it would not resist to the utmost any effort to dominate the world by force. I shall have the support of people who value peace but who value freedom even more.

And then:

We ourselves will turn first to our partners in the British commonwealth of nations.

That, Mr. Speaker, is an invitation to the different dominions to say where they stand. What is to be our answer? I was much impressed this afternoon by the plea of the Minister of Justice for the unity of all the citizens of Canada. I too desire that unity, and may I point out to the Minister of Justice that all the inconsistencies in thinking are not found in the province of Quebec. You will find them in the province of Ontario; you will find them in the western provinces; you will find them in other provinces of Canada.

Foreign Policy-Mr. Lacombe

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
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LIB

Joseph Georges Bouchard

Liberal

Mr. BOUCHARD:

And provoked by each other.

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
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CON

James Earl Lawson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAWSON:

Yes, in many cases provoked mutually, sometimes internecine in each province. I too desire unity among the Canadian people. In the past I have never failed, when I have heard a declaration by anyone, either on a public platform or in a private room, about secession of the west or of Quebec or of some other part of Canada-I say, I have never failed to declare that if Canada was ever to fulfil its destiny, Canadians must keep before them the vision of the fathers of confederation, who united two great races and many provinces in order to make what we have, a federated Canada.

Yes, I desire unity. So far as I am personally concerned, and I hope the vast majority of my fellow Canadians will agree with me, we can still preserve that unity which is so much desired, we can still maintain that unity in the Dominion of Canada, by making answer to Prime Minister Chamberlain indicating that we stand, as a general enunciation of our foreign policy, not merely in the same relation to the United Kingdom as we stand to other nations of the world who are fellow members of the League of Nations, but to the extent of all our resources, to the extent of our power, for the maintenance of Canada as an integral part of, and for the defence of, the British empire.

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
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LIB

Liguori Lacombe

Liberal

Mr. LIGUORI LACOMBE (Laval-Two Mountains) (Translation):

Mr. Speaker, the effects of the last war are engraved in letters of blood on the political history of this country. This sad reality will ever guide the steps of all true Canadians in the path of autonomy, liberty and sovereignty traced by the statute of Westminster. Nevertheless, a deplorable colonial mentality still exists in Canada, despite our unmistakeable evolution towards independence and the explicit statement, contained in paragraph 3 of the Statute of Westminster, of our power to legislate in external matters. This paragraph reads as follows:

It is hereby declared and enacted that the parliament of a dominion has full power to make laws having extraterritorial operation.

It is in the name of this treaty stamped with liberty, nobility and sovereignty that I earnestly entreat the house to beware of military and financial imperialism which will always seek to raise obstacles against the exercise of our sovereign rights. It is in the name of this document which consecrates our magnificent evolution towards the full exercise

of our prerogatives that I say: Beware of occult influences and odious war profiteers. They will stop at nothing. Accustomed to defile the most worthy causes, dissimulating their impudent plans of spoliation, they will spare nothing to deprive us of our right of self-government. Why should we ruin ourselves in wars or even preparations for wars which are no concern of ours? In constant peace with our neighbours, are we to commit this lamentable error? Shall we be so forgetful of realities that Canada will cease to be Canada; that this country will no longer !be ours; that our lines of defence will be everywhere in this troubled world; that we will have to emigrate to unhappy Europe with the last shred of our country, the last dollar of our money, the last son of Canada? I say no.

.Personally, I have always been opposed to any increase in military appropriations, so long as 1jie Militia and Defence Act permits the use thereof in foreign wars. I have never believed that this stupid armament race was ever intended for the protection of Canadian territory and Canadian territory alone. The existing Militia and Defence Act has always convinced me of the contrary. In the course of last session's debates I quoted the text of this act, which is in flagrant contradiction with the statute of Westminster. Many times have we asked for an amendment, but always in vain. The act remains on our statute book, unchanged. Religious and patriotic societies; county, town, village and parish councils, have insisted on the necessary amendments, while an entire people raised strong protests against the assertions of imperialistic principles made in this house on March 20 last. In the course of the preceding week the county council of Two Mountains, to which I have had the privilege of belonging for many years past, unanimously adopted a resolution expressing its opposition to any military action other than for the defence of Canadian territory. Through the unanimous action of the mayors of its seventeen municipalities, the county of Deux-Montagnes also asked that the Militia and Defence Act be amended, so as to be made applicable expressly and exclusively to our territorial defence. Such a splendid example of true Canadianism should be an inspiration to those whose imperialistic sighs are so deep that they cannot be breathed fully in a free Canada. That is why I am making it a point to record into Hansard the resolution adopted by the corporation of the county of Deux-Montagnes, a resolution showing more firmness, clearness, plainness and eloquence than the imperialistic propaganda, which is founded on bondage and domination.

Foreign Policy-Mr. Lacombe

The Corporation of the County of Deux-Montagnes

Sainte Scholastique, Que.

14th March, 1939.

Mr. Liguori Lacombe, M.P.,

House of Commons,

Ottawa, Canada.

To whom it may concern:

Excerpt from the minutes of a regular meeting of the corporation of the county of Deux-Montagnes, held in Sainte Scholastique, on the 8th March, 1939, and attended by Messrs. Herve Husereau, Joseph Lauzon, Philomire Filion, Edouard Castonguay, Omer Brunet, Maxime Charbonneau, Joseph Bourgeois, Frank Keyes, J. 0. Charette, Gustave Labelle, Jean-Louis Cyr, Charles-Henri Giroux, Petrus Fortier, Liguori Lacombe, M.P., under the chairmanship of Mr. Ophnie Lalonde, mayor of Saint-Placide and newly elected prefect of the county.

Moved by Mr. Jean-Louis Cyr, seconded by Mr. Philomire Filion, and carried unanimously, that the council of the county of Deux-Montagnes declare itself fundamentally opposed to any military action other than the defence of the Canadian territory, and to any military policy not expressly and exclusively designed to ensure the said territorial defence, and that the Canadian Militia and Defence Act be amended accordingly; and furthermore, that this council voice its opposition to any immigration whatever, and that copy of this resolution be forwarded to the proper authorities.

A true copy of the minute of these presents was filed in the county records.

J. Leo Beaudet,

Secretary of the municipal council of the county of Deux-Montagnes.

Mr. Speaker, the armaments race is not only stupid but infamous. Let the news agencies with imperialistic leanings cease to depict rearmament as a cure for unemployment. England spends hundreds of millions in military preparations but unemployment, far from disappearing, is reaching in that country a total of over 1,800,000, an increase of 50,000 over 1938 and of 300,000 over 1937. On the other hand, while unemployment remains rampant heinous profiteers are becoming increasingly rich. Wealth is the privilege of a few company shareholders whose dividends attain a rate as stupendously high as 32 per cent. And employment is decreasing. How pitiful is the sight of an economic system in full decay!

There is nothing new in all that. During the last war, a few people grew rich while others suffered untold hardships. A few loathsome profiteers flooded Europe with war equipment. Boundaries did not exist for cannon merchants. The ocean itself was no barrier for those ever greedy madmen, the most active and at the same time the most repulsive of whom was Sir Basil Zaharof. Holder of a baronetcy, commander of the Order of the Bath and grand officer of the Legion of honour, that

shady character became the intimate friend of the great political and military men of that period. He gave advice on war operations. He travelled from one sea port to another in perfect safety; he laid down the law, and compelled those in power to obey him. In short, he dominated governments and influenced history.

Mr. Speaker, the horrible war which engulfed the lives of 60,000 of our fellow coun-'trymen on foreign battlefields, and which cost and is still costing us billions, the terrible war which cost 33 countries the staggering sum of 186 billion dollars, this horrible war in which 15 million men were killed, now appears to have been useless and to have settled nothing. Why? Simply because Germany, although she may have lost the war, has won a great peace time victory through failure on the part of the victors to realize the inevitable consequences of their actions. When she was condemned to pay reparations, a few of the victors proved quite willing to grant her loans much more considerable than the amounts she had to pay. When her commercial fleet was seized, her enemies of yesterday provided her with the funds required to build another more powerful one. Dictatorship of money, what crimes do we not commit in your name! Twenty years ago, the old Germany was crushed and begging for mercy. To-day, the new Germany, in a shaken Europe, openly defies the democracies. Behind the League of Nations' back, she imposes humiliating conditions on Great Britain and France. What happens when the vanquished of yesterday demand the dismemberment of Czechoslovakia? Two great nations give way in the face of the terrible doctrine of, "might is right." These are indeed cruel truths. But no purpose is to be served by concealing them and it is far better to turn the searchlight of truth on the lowest strata of international life.

In the face of events like these, invisible forces such as cooperation and love of peace remain the only safeguards of our civilization.

That is where the petty interests and criminal hypocrisy of certain nations have led all peoples. To ensure the peace and progress of the world should have been the ultimate goal of the statesmen who were called upon to guide the destinies of the most powerful countries on earth. But arbitration and conciliation treaties were wrecked by a formidable instrument, that of financial and military imperialism. As substitutes for disarmament, tranquility and the free development of peoples, heinous psychological trends have given us all the devilish weapons invented by a barbarousness which we still dare to clothe with the noble name of civilization.

Foreign Policy-Mr. Lacombe

In conclusion, may I be permitted to remind the house that, during the last war, it was said that the gold of certain allied countries was of great service to the enemy. Could it be true that certain hidden powers thus supplied Germany for the entire war's duration? Is it true that the war could and should have been won three years sooner? Is it possible that the Canadian people who are staggering under the burden of war taxes could have been the victims of the blackest treachery that history has ever recorded?

Mr. Speaker, on the strength of the prerogatives granted to us by the statute of Westminster, let us avoid interference in foreign wars. In the interests of peace, order and progress in Canada, let us bend all our efforts towards the reorganization of our economic life which was so deeply affected by our participation in the last war. Let us remain at home, for I believe that, as far as Canada is concerned, the only danger of attack, provided of course such a danger does exist, would result from the fact that we did not abstain from intervening in the military affairs of Great Britain and other European countries. Our participation in the last war was disastrous and almost a national suicide. Consequently, Canada would have to choose between nonintervention and her own ruin, a total, complete and absolute non-intervention.

I am not of those who believe that once the principle of our participation is established, we can limit our contribution to volunteer services. That is a great mistake! We would be fatally drawn towards conscription. Have we already forgotten the famous national service of 1918? Have we forgotten the cruel treachery of which the religious and civil authorities of our country were made the victims at that time? Once the principle of participation is established, military conscription is bound to result therefrom. This will mean a mass levying of our entire youth, of all male Canadians, of all our living strength and of all our resources. Vanished will be the savings of our people, and ruined, the finances of t'he nation. Families, homes and even children in their cradles shall not be spared in this orgy of slaughtering and blood. The downfall and complete ruin of my fellow-citizens and my country is something that I will fight against to the bitter end. No Canadian worthy of the name would or could wish such a thing. For him, Canada is the home land. Prompted by this lofty sense of the physical, moral and spiritual personality of my country, I will never cease defending its sacred heritage against whomever might consciously or unconsciously desire its destruction.

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Vien

Liberal

Mr. VIEN:

Will my hon. friend allow me to ask him a question?

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
Permalink
LIB

Liguori Lacombe

Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE:

Certainly.

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Vien

Liberal

Mr. VIEN:

How would he ensure the defence of Canada if he does not take the necessary measures to that end?

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
Permalink
LIB

Liguori Lacombe

Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE:

I shall answer my hon. colleague at once-

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
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LIB

Thomas Vien

Liberal

Mr. VIEN:

And how would he go about defending the cradles and homes of which he # has just spoken against airplanes and warships coming up the St. Lawrence and bombing our territory?

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
Permalink
LIB

Liguori Lacombe

Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE:

I stated a moment ago that I was against any increase in military appropriations so long as the Militia and Defence Act was not amended. I have already expressed my opinion on the matter. I trust my hon. friend will no longer interrupt me.

Topic:   COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-FOREIGN POLICY-STATEMENT OF PRIME MINISTER ON MOTION OF MINISTER OF FINANCE
Sub-subtopic:   SI, 1939
Permalink

March 31, 1939