May 31, 1940

LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

No, I do not think any guarantees have reached the 80 per cent which the act provides might be given. The guarantee has been less than the 80 per cent by agreement between the organizations themselves and the department.

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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CCF

Alexander Malcolm Nicholson

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. NICHOLSON:

Has the minister information as to the set-up of the alfalfa industry in northern Saskatchewan, the average price over the past few years and the initial payment last year?

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

I have not statistical information here on these questions. It has usually been the practice to bring down all such statistical information when the estimates are before the committee of supply. Then all these matters will be open for discussion.

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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CON

Mark Cecil Senn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SENN:

I have on several occasions advocated the cooperative marketing of farm products. The questions I have asked to-night, and the questions asked by different members of the committee, have been for the purpose of getting real information. As farmers we are interested in the operation of this act. It takes the place, to some extent, of what was known as the Natural Products Marketing Act, which was later declared ultra vires, and I am surprised that the hon. member for Essex East (Mr. Martin) casts a reflection upon us for trying to get information about the act. I very much want to see the act a success.

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. MARTIN:

I am sure the hon. member does not want to misinterpret my remarks.

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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NAT

Grote Stirling

National Government

Mr. STIRLING:

Order.

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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CON

Mark Cecil Senn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SENN:

I was rather of the opinion from what the -hon. member said and from the way in which his questions were framed that he implied we were criticizing for the

Agriculture Cooperative Marketing

sake of criticism. I want to assure him and the minister that nothing of that kind was in my mind at least, and I doubt if it was in the minds of other members of the committee who have been seeking information.

As I have said, I have always been interested in cooperative marketing, and I hope the day will come when more of our farm products will be marketed on that basis. We are interested in the operation of this act, and I am only sorry that it has not reached the stage where the minister can give us some real information as to its value and as to its success.

I was going to ask him if any time limit is set with respect to the full crop of a particular area. I have no doubt whatever that there will have to be different times set, because one product will come on the market at one time and another product at a different time of the year, which makes it impossible to have a uniform date when all these agreements shall end their fiscal year. But I believe that some date should be fixed so that a surplus not disposed of cannot be held over from one period to another. It must be apparent that sooner or later there must be an end and an accounting, not only to enable the department and the government to know whether they are to sustain a loss or not, but in order that the farmers may get their final payment. The act as I read it makes it compulsory that not more than 80 per cent of the total shall be paid to the farmer until the department gives the organization its consent to finish up and give the farmer his final payment.

I would ask the minister two questions. The first one is with regard to the final payment. In cases where 65 per cent is the total guaranteed, is the other 35 per cent held back until the end of the year, or is it only the 20 per cent that is over and above the 80 per cent which is allowed under the act?

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

The 35 per cent, which is an estimate based on the average of the last three years.

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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CON

Mark Cecil Senn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SENN:

The full 35 per cent is held back. That is a serious handicap to a great many farmers who depend on that crop for their revenue for the year. It seems to me that to hold back 35 cents out of every dollar until the whole crop is disposed of is a hardship upon the farmers, and I would suggest to the minister that there might very well be interim payments at least, so that the farmer would not be out so much of his revenue.

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

The main objective in this legislation is to assist the farmers to finance. Those who are growing alfalfa seed sell a considerable part of that seed in the United States and some in different parts of Canada. They found it very difficult to sell seed, particularly in the early stages of the seed growing industry there. In the earlier years they were engaged in the growing of alfalfa seed in that section largely because of the fact that many of these farmers had come from the south country, while others who had been living there for some time had found the country not suited to other things which they had been trying to grow. Finally they found that alfalfa was a seed which could be grown to good advantage in that section of the country. In other words, they were men who were trying to establish themselves on farms of a certain type, for the first time. As a result of that condition prevailing, among other reasons, they had to sell their crop almost as soon as they had harvested it and take what they could get for it. Under this act they are able to spread the sale of it over a considerable part of the year, or over that part of the year which passes between the growing of it and the seeding of it the next year, and get better results from the market as it goes along.

Of course the government in common with the farmer has this object in mind, that none of these organizations should lose money. If any considerable number should lose on that advance in any one year or over a period of years, I am afraid the house would want to repeal this legislation. So that whenever any of these organizations come before the officials of the department, the first thing we do is to try to reason with them to get an advance which everyone feels will be safe.

If the committee will permit me-and I do not think they would want to bear with me while I read all this material, which will give a considerable part of the information for which hon. members are asking-I should like to place on Hansard the record I have before me. It covers all of the cooperative organizations of which I spoke a moment ago and the names of which I read to the committee. To indicate the type of information it gives, I will take the first item, which is honey. The name of the association is the Saskatchewan Honey Producers Cooperative Association of Fort Qu'Appelle; name of selling agency, P. M. Pugh, Fort Qu'Appelle, Saskatchewan. Then it gives the initial payments to primary producers: grade No. 1, 3 cents a pound; grade No. 2, 2J cents a pound. Then there are the processing, carrying and selling charges-this is right in the agreement

Agriculture Cooperative Marketing

-in connection with a product of this kind. We limit the charge which can be imposed in connection with the handling of this product to 2 cents a pound on both grades. Then there is the percentage that initial payments and charges are of average wholesale price for past three years; this one is approximately 55 per cent in both cases. So the committee will see that the initial payment is about 55 per cent. There is added to that a possible cost of 2 cents a pound on this honey for all processing, carrying and selling charges. That whole amount is guaranteed. It is not only the 55 per cent of the average price of the

three years which is guaranteed; the carrying charges, the selling charges and the processing charges up to 2 cents are also guaranteed. That information is given on this statement which I have before me with regard to all of these organizations; and if it would meet the wishes of the committee and give the information required, I would be pleased to place this table on Hansard.

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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CON

Mark Cecil Senn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SENN:

I think that information should go on Hansard. It will be of value to those of us who want to make a study of it.

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

The table is as follows:

Summary of Agreements Under The Agricultural Products Cooperative Marketing Act, 1939

Product Date of Approval of Agreement Names of Cooperative Association or Processor Name of Selling Agency Initial Payments to Primary Producers Processing Carrying and Selling Charges Percentage that Initial Payments and Charges are of Average Wholesale Price for Past Three YearsAug. 31.. .. Saskatchewan Honey Producers Cooperative Association, Fort Qu'-Appelle. R. M. Pugh, Fort Qu Appelle, Saskatchewan. Grade No. 1, 3c. per lb. Grade No. 2, 2jc. per lb. 2c. per lb. (approximately) 55%2c. per lb. 55%Honey Aug. 31.. .. Manitoba Cooperative Honey Producers Limited, Winnipeg. E. B. Chown, Winnipeg, Manitoba. Grade No. 1, 3c. per lb. Grade No. 2 and Grade 3, 2Jc. per lb. 2c. per lb. 2c. per lb. 55% 55%Alfalfa seed.... Aug. 31.. Nov. 28.. .. Eleven Local Co-operative Marketing Associations. Erie-St. Clair Onion Growers Marketing Boards Leamington, Ontario. Saskatchewan Alfalfa Growers' Co-operative Marketing Association, Prince Albert. The Ontario Onion Growers' Cooperative Ltd.. Leamington, Ontario. Registered seed, 9c. per lb. Certified seed, 8e. per lb. Commercial seed, 7c. per lb. In 100* In 50# bags bags Grade No. 1: 21c. per lb. 2|e. per lb. 2|c. per lb. 18c. per 100} bag. 56% 56% 56% 60-65%2i" min. .. 95 50 Grade No. 1: If" min. .. 75 40 Grade No. 2: If" min. .. 55 30 Initial payments mentioned above on onions for immediate sale but on only 85% of quantity placed in storage. Registered seed. Dec. 20.. .. Saskatchewan Registered Seed Growers Limited, Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. W. E. Dempsey, Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. See agreement attached for various initial payments. lie. per lb. 5c. per bushel. 50-60%

>

Agriculture Cooperative Marketing

Summary of Agreements Under The Agricultural Products Cooperative Marketing Act, 1939-Concluded

Product Date of Approval of Agreement Names of Cooperative Association or Processor Name of Selling Agency Initial Payments to Primary Producers Processing Carrying and Selling Charges Percentage that Initial Payments and Charges are of Average Wholesale Price for Past Three YearsSilver Fox pelts Dec. 8 .. .. The Canadian National Silver Fox Breeders Association. George A. Callbeck, Summerside, P.E.I. 50% of basic valuations of pelts. Basic valuations are approximately the same as 1939-40 market prices. $1.05 per pelt plus interest, etc. (approximately) 40-45%Silver Fox pelts Dec. 8 .. .. The Dominion Silver Fox Furs Limited, Summer-side, P.E.I. Charlottetown Fur Sales Limited, Charlottetown, P.E.I. John McIntosh, Summerside, P.E.I. 50% of basic valuations of pelts. Basic valuations are approximately the same as 1939-40 market prices. $1.05 per pelt plus interest, etc. 40-45%Silver Fox pelts Dec. 8 .. .. Prince Edward Island Fur Pool Limited, Summerside, P.E.I. Peter G. Clark, Summerside. P.E.I. 50% of basic valuations of pelts. Basic valuations are approximately the same as 1939-40 market prices. $1.05 per pelt plus interest, etc. 40-45%Silver Fox and Mink pelts... Dec. 8 .. .. L'Association des Ele-veurs de Renards de la Province de Quebec, St. Hyacinthe, Quebec. Syndicat Co-operatif des Producteurs de Fourrures, Quebec City. 50% of basic valuations of pelts. Basic valuations are approximately the same as 1939-40 market prices. 25 cents per fox pelt and 10 cents per mink pelt plus interest, etc. 40-45%Silver Fox and Mink pelts... Silver Fox and Dec. 19. . .. Dominion Fur Auction Sales Limited, Winnipeg, Manitoba. Soudack Fur Auction Sales Limited, Winnipeg, Manitoba. Edmonton Fur Auction Sales Limited, Edmonton, Alberta. Little Bros. Fur Sales Agency Limited, Vancouver, B.C. J. A. Couture, Winnipeg, Manitoba. 50% of basic valuations of pelts. Basie valuations are approximately the same as 1939-40 market prices. 25 cents per fox pelt and 10 cents per mink pelt plus interest, etc. 40-45%Mink pelts... Jan. 4 .. .. Maritime Fur Pool Limited, Moncton, N.B. Harry Rich, Moncton, N.B. 50% of basic valuations of pelts. Basic valuations are approximately the same as 1939-40 market prices. $1.05 per fox pelt and 30 cents per mink pelt plus interest, etc. 40-45%

(Interim payments of one cent per pound have been made to honey producers in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Interim payments aggregating $25,686.65 were made to alfalfa seed producers in Saskatchewan. No registered seed was delivered under the agreement which was concluded with the Saskatchewan Registered Seed Growers of Moose Jaw.)

Agriculture Cooperative Marketing

Agriculture Cooperative Marketing

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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CON

Mark Cecil Senn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SENN:

What length of time will be allowed each of these organizations?

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

I should have answered that. The surmise of the hon. member is correct, that different times will be inserted in different agreements, depending on the way in which the different products are handled, the times of the year at which they are harvested and the times they are used for certain purposes. For example, for seeds, harvested in the fall and planted in the spring, there will be a different time as contrasted with furs, which are marketed throughout the year.

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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CON

Mark Cecil Senn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SENN:

It is very important that one crop should be cleared up before the next one comes on the market. I should like to know if it will be possible for the department to insist on there not being any carryover at all?

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

Details with regard to these matters are written right in the agreements in order to deal with each product as it is or always has been handled on the market by the different organizations.

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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CON

Mark Cecil Senn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SENN:

I believe it would be of value to the committee if a copy of some agreement, of a general character, were placed on Hansard or put at the disposal of the committee so that we could study it and have some idea of its terms.

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

I am afraid that any particular one of them would not be of much value. I would suggest this, that I attempt to get a copy of each one of these agreements and have those copies placed on the table of the house so that hon. members can go through them before we take up the estimates in connection with the expenditures under this act. I believe we would then be in a position to discuss all details in connection with them.

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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NAT

Grote Stirling

National Government

Mr. STIRLING:

Has there been under this act a considerable number of applications, of which the number the hon. member has referred to were successful?

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. GARDINER:

I am speaking only

from memory, I thought I had the details here. My recollection is that some twenty-seven or twenty-nine cooperatives all told have been set up under control selling agencies. I am not in a position this evening to say to what extent all of them have been doing business since they were set up, but I believe that nearly all of the organizations which have made application have finally entered into agreements with the department.

Topic:   AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
Subtopic:   MEASURE TO PROVIDE FOB AGREEMENTS WITH COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS AND PROCESSORS
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May 31, 1940