May 31, 1940

NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Has the minister any reports which he could appropriately give to the committee?

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Munitions and Supply; Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

I should be glad to table the publications in connection with the St. Lawrence waterway which go into this matter fully. I have quite a library on the subject.

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
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NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Do they go into the question of diversion?

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Munitions and Supply; Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

I am sure they have been tabled in the past, but I should be glad to table them again.

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

That is

not exactly what I had in mind. What I was thinking of was any study of the effect of this proposed diversion upon navigation, and the kindred subjects to which I referred.

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Munitions and Supply; Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

I have a report from a member of my own staff, Mr. D. W. McLachlan.

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I should be glad to have that. I have great faith in him.

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Munitions and Supply; Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

Mr. McLachlan has been in charge of the St. Lawrence, for many years for the former department of railways and

canals, and now, for the Department of Transport. Mr. Guy Lindsay, our hydraulic engineer, is also an expert on the matter. Both are Canadian representatives on the international board which is studying the development of the St. Lawrence. I might point out that any diversion into the Beauharnois canal, which is the canal that will be used for navigation in the St. Lawrence development, is compensated for in the flow of the river.

This bill will be supplemented by regulations which will set down certain obligations on the Beauhamois company to build compensating works. A very careful study is made to determine the effect of the diversion on water levels in that section, and compensating works are built to maintain the levels of the river.

A question was asked as to what effect this would have on the Soulanges canal. It will have no effect.

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

Just before we leave the other point, I might have gone on and read the opinion of the deputy minister in which he says this whole matter should be referred to technical engineers and so on in order to establish whether any diversion would affect the agreement under the treaty, that is as to the water levels. The point I was making is, that report having been made, can we have it produced here in order to satisfy the members of the committee?

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Munitions and Supply; Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

I believe that such a report can be produced. It is difficult to produce specific reports on this particular subject because it is involved in a larger plan of development. Studies of the St. Lawrence have been made and agreement reached as to what compensation, for example, is necessary at certain stages of development of the work, as regards the water in this canal. The statute for the Beauharnois provides a limit on the flow of water in the Beauharnois canal. I think the limit is 2J feet per second. So much has been decided in an international way about this particular diversion that I cannot say what reports we have on this particular phase of the matter, but I can say that every phase of the development is a matter of international agreement and has been agreed upon by engineers responsible to their respective governments for the development.

Then comes the question as to when the Beauharnois ship channel will be put in operation. Navigation from Montreal harbour to Prescott is maintained at a 14-foot level, and very large expenditures are required both in the international section, above the Beauhamois development, and in the Lachine section below the Beauharnois development,

Beauhamois Power Bill

before the 27-foot depth of navigation will be obtained. As I say, the development proposed in this bill does not in any way affect 14-foot navigation in the Soulanges section or any other section of the river. At such time as 27-foot navigation is a feasibility, we have a power canal some sixteen miles long, I think it is, developed at the cost of the Beauhamois company, which would otherwise have been required to be developed at the expense of the federal government, at least as far as the government's responsibility for navigation is concerned.

At six o'clock the committee took recess.

After Recess

The committee resumed at eight o'clock.

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Munitions and Supply; Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

At the request of the hon.

leader of the opposition I table the report on the application of the Beauhamois Light, Heat and Power company under the Navigable Waters Protection Act for approval of plans to divert 40,000 cubic feet per second from lake St. Francis to lake St. Louis and from the St. Lawrence river via the south shore. This report was made by an interdepartmental committee of federal government engineers. It gives data on the effect of diversion of various amounts of water.

I also table a plan dated May 8, 1935, showing the development of the St. Lawrence at the present time.

I also table a plan dated January 8, 1940, showing the navigation features of the canal, with the future locks that will be built when needed for navigation and the development required for the 83,000 cubic feet per second diversion contemplated by this bill.

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
CCF

George Hugh Castleden

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. CASTLEDEN:

Would the diversion

of this water affect the locks already there, render them obsolete?

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Munitions and Supply; Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

Nothing that is there will be changed in any way. Compensation works will be built in the river to take care of the proposed diversion through the canal so that the level of the water at the head of the Soulanges canal locks will be exactly the same after the diversion as it is at present. The water levels from there down are of course controlled by the locks themselves. There will be no change whatever in the navigation feature of the river by the 14-foot canal system now in operation.

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
CCF

Alexander Malcolm Nicholson

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. NICHOLSON:

While I understand

we are concerned chiefly with the navigation aspect, could the minister state the amount of power developed as the scheme now stands and the amount that will be developed with the additional quantity of water?

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Munitions and Supply; Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

The present amount developed is 450,000 horse-power, and the additional diversion will generate an additional 250,000 horse-power.

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Vien (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Shall the section carry?

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I do not

think the minister has completely covered the situation as set forth by myself. There are several considerations to which he has not adverted at all.

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Munitions and Supply; Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

I shall be glad to continue.

My notes are a little disorganized.

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
NAT

Richard Burpee Hanson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

National Government

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

This is a very short bill, just one clause and the preamble. If it goes through now, there will not be another opportunity to get the information for which I have asked. Besides, the minister has now tabled something which I think we should have had before; that is the report. I have not been able even to look at the outside of it yet. I would ask the minister if he would be content to have the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again the first of next week. Meantime, perhaps I shall have an opportunity to look into this application.

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Munitions and Supply; Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. HOWE:

Before doing so, perhaps I

could continue and cover the points that have been raised, and then I shall be glad to comply with the request of my hon. friend.

Topic:   MUNITIONS AND SUPPLY
Subtopic:   BEAUHARNOIS POWER COMPANY
Sub-subtopic:   PROPOSED APPROVAL FOR DIVERSION OF ADDITIONAL 30,000 CUBIC SECOND FEET
Permalink

May 31, 1940