Right Hon. ERNEST LAPOINTE (Minister of Justice):

I shall see that the Minister of Transport gives an answer to my hon. friend.

Hon. R. B. HANSON (Leader of the Opposition):

As has already been intimated by the Minister of Labour, there is a matter which I desire to discuss on this third reading, and which I hope may be considered pertinent, because if I do not get an opportunity to do it now I do not know when the occasion may arise again.

I am familiar in a degree with the situation existing in Pictou, Nova Scotia, a county that was settled by some of the finest stock that ever entered Canada. I bow to the assistant clerk, because he is directly descended from that gallant band who came over to Canada in the Hector. During the course of my educational career in Nova Scotia nearly half a century ago, I learned that if you came over in the Hector you were of the very elite. If I had not learned it then I should have learned it in this house some years later when this house, in 1923, gave a grant for the celebration of the one hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the arrival of the Hector. In other words, what the Mayflower is to New England the Hector was to the province of Nova Scotia and the county of Pictou.

Primarily an agricultural section, in course of time through the initiative of two or three or four very gallant Scotsmen it became more or less an industrial centre, due, I think, largely to the discovery there of coal of good quality. As a result of the initiative of these men, who grew into importance in Nova Scotia, that portion of the province became an iron and steel centre. To-day there is situated in that country, at Trenton and elsewhere, plants comparable, I believe, with anything that may be found even in central Canada for the manufacture of certain types of munitions and other commodities that might be very useful at this time in connection with Canada's war effort. During the last war the Nova Scotia Steel and Coal Company, then managed by my old friend who was for ten years a valuable member of this house and who is now resting on his laurels in the other chamber, manufactured no less than 25,000,000 shells for the Imperial Munitions Board. Since we came here he has been urging me, and I have been urging the Minister of Munitions and Supply (Mr. Howe) to do something to

Unemployment Relief

utilize those plants at Trenton and elsewhere in the county of Pictou for this very important purpose. I have been content not to raise any question about the matter in this house until to-day. I received to-day a telegram transmitting a resolution unanimously passed at a joint meeting of the town councils of the towns of New Glasgow and Trenton and members of the boards of trade of those towns in which they say that they-

-view with alarm the grave crisis now developing in the European war, in which the safety and welfare of our British empire is involved, and the imminent and essential need of all Canadians immediately doing all humanly possible to assist in a great war effort.

And further reciting that:

It appears that the major industry in our locality, with its workmen, have thus far failed to fully use their facilities for the manufacture and production of wrar munitions, largely due to a continued dispute between the company and workmen over rates of pay, hours of labour and working conditions.

It is with respect to that that I desire to discuss briefly with my hon. friend the Minister of Labour the situation in that section of the country. It is further alleged in this telegram that the large plants of the Trenton steel works and the Eastern Car company are now practically idle and doing nothing towards the war effort by the manufacture of war materials, of which they have a proven capacity, as evidenced in the last war, and as shortly narrated by myself. Then it recites that the differences between the management and workmen of the steel plant to be dealt with by a conciliation board now set up may not be heard and dealt with finally for some considerable time. Then the telegram proceeds:

Therefore be it resolved that we urgently petition the government of Canada, through its departments, to immediately cause action to be taken for the prompt settlement of the differences between the men and the company.

Be it further resolved that we also petition the government of Canada to make available to these companies and the workmen sufficient orders for war materials and munitions so that these industries may be immediately utilized to their greatest capacity.

The minister has been good enough to supply me with a brief statement of the situation existing in that section. I understand that there are no less than three disputes which are presently to be heard.

Mr. McLARTY:

That is just in this one case. There are many other boards set up.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I understand from the memorandum I have received that applications were received as late as May 9 last in the Department of Labour from employees of the Trenton steel works, the Eastern Car company and the New Glasgow

plant of Standard Clay Products Limited, employees of all three plants being members of local No. 1231 of the Amalgamated Association of Iron, Steel and Tin Workers of steel workers' organizing committee. Now I am not sure, I will ask the minister to tell me when he replies, whether that is the Congress of Industrial Organization's union.

Mr. McLARTY:

It is.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Well, I am not concerned about that at all; but it is further represented that the dispute in each company arose in connection with the employees' request for increased wages, and that employees' representatives were quite willing *to have one board deal with all three disputes, but that the company in its reply pointed out that about March 1 last the officials and union executives met for the purpose of discussing wages and working conditions at Trenton and as a result of these negotiations an increase of 74 .per cent was granted and certain other adjustments made. Without going into details of the subsequent steps it would appear that this arrangement was not ratified by the union officials, that the matter came to a strike vote and that then a conciliation board was applied for. The company appointed a gentleman in Halifax, whom I know very well, Mr. Russell Mclnnes, K.C., and the men appointed Mr. Wren. I am further informed that either the parties, through their representatives, or the department-I am not sure which-agreed upon Professor MacKenzie of the university of Toronto as chairman of the board, but that as yet the board has not functioned, that for more than a month there has been delay and nothing has been done. As a result, while some work is going on in that locality under agreements which had previously expired, this festering sore is still there and, so far as I know, there has been no move made to get this conciliation board to function.

I am not concerned with the merits of this dispute. I do not know enough about it to express any opinion, and I do not think it would be my function to do so even if I had information. I am rising to ask the minister to see that this board gets on with its job and reaches a final conclusion so that industry and labour in that district may get back into unison. Then we will see if something cannot be done by way of getting some munition or war supply orders in that part of the country, which has demonstrated on many occasions that it can do a good job.

Mr. MARTIN:

That is true of other places.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I am not suggesting that it is not.

Mr. MARTIN:

Just generally.

Unemployment Relief

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I am not referring to any other place at the moment. My hon. friend can do that in his turn, if he wishes. I want the minister, if he will, to insist that action be taken, no matter who is to blame for the delay. My information from the department indicates that in this instance the company has not been willing to proceed. That may or may not be true. The reason alleged, I understand, is that they have many of these disputes with their employees all over Nova Scotia-I hope I am correctly interpreting my information-that they have only one office staff to attend to the adjudication or trial, shall I say, of all these disputes, that they can do only one thing at a time, and so forth. That is not good enough. Here we are at war and an important industry in Nova Scotia, the biggest industry in that province, for which I hold no brief at all, is tying up the works, in a degree, with all these labour disputes. This government has asked for great power over men and resources in this country. Surely the government can go down there and get these things straightened out in jig time.

There is one thing I should like to add, because no doubt the hon. member for Vancouver East (Mr. Maclnnis) will have something to say about the matter later. Before you can get anywhere in a matter of this kind you must have some good will on both sides. The company must have the will to adjust these matters, and the men in their turn must have the will also. What I should like to see, in behalf of the people of New Glasgow and Trenton, in behalf of the community as a whole, and in behalf of Canada's war effort-because here is a real opportunity to make a contribution to the war effort of this country-is some effort made to get these matters adjusted and out of the way so that industry, as represented in that locality by this company, can function. I cannot understand why a whole month should be permitted to elapse without this board meeting. I may be wrong in that statement; my information may be too meagre to warrant it, but if that is true it ought not to be at this time, or even in time of peace. All I can do from my place in this house is to call the attention of the minister to the situation and ask him to act.

I believe he will act, and I should like to say to him, do not draw back or withhold action because Michael Dwyer says so. I am not going to say anything more about that; the minister can take his own implications from my words.

Mr. ISNOR:

Then why say it?

IMr. Martin.]

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I think I know something of what I am talking about, and it was not really necessary to make that interjection. I am suggesting to the minister that he should not withhold any action because of any representations which may be made to him by an official of the steel company. Let us get action, for the good of the people of Pictou.

Mr. H. B. McCULLOCH (Pictou):

I have taken up this matter with the Minister of Labour (Mr. McLarty), and he has promised immediate action. As far as Michael Dwyer is concerned, the words the minister used were that he thought he would have to step on Mr. Michael Dwyer's toes.

With regard to the work at Trenton, six hundred men are working there to-day. It is true that the car works will be idle following delivery of the last two hundred cars for the Sydney and Louisburg railway. A vote was taken by the men at the steel plant, and 62 per cent voted to work on Saturdays, at a pay increase of per cent. Mr. Barrett came up from Sydney and refused to let them work. I understand the boards of trade of Trenton and New Glasgow have tried to interview Mr. Clawes and Mr. Barrett, and the last word I had was that Mr. Clawes would give them a few minutes. It seems remarkable to me that Mr. Clawes and Mr. Barrett can refuse to let the men work in Trenton. I do not believe that an increase of 7i per cent is enough for the men working there, since they are receiving smaller wages than are paid in other steel plants throughout the country, but as far as the conciliation board is concerned, the minister has given me his word that everything will be rushed as much as possible.

Mr. T. L. CHURCH (Broadview):

Will the minister give further consideration to the five matters I mentioned last week? We are taking away further the revenues of the municipalities by way of the income tax, and so on. In these new agreements with the provinces will the government give consideration to relieving real estate of some of the burden of taxation by federal aid to help more to provide for relief and hospitalization? Then there is the question of those men, forty-five years of age and older, who cannot find employment in industry, and there is also the question of those employees who have been laid off by industries which have closed up altogether on account of lost markets in war areas, as I mentioned last week.

At six o'clock the house took recess.

Unemployment Relief

After Recess

The house resumed at eight o'clock.

Mr. CHURCH:

I should like to have a reply from the minister to the questions I asked at six o'clock.

Hon. N. A. McLARTY (Minister of Labour):

As I understood the hon. member for Broadview (Mr. Church), he was asking what this government was doing to relieve the tax burden on real estate. I take it that he means that we should absorb a larger amount of the relief costs. If that is so, I think he will agree with me when I say that in view of the large expenditures being made by this government upon our war effort, in view of the fact that we still have to consider the report of the dominion-provincial commission, any promise which I might make, other than merely that of consideration, would be neither warranted nor fair. The hon. member asked also what was being done to provide employment for men over the age of forty-five years. Perhaps that question could be more correctly stated in these words: What are we doing to provide employment for these men. in the aftermath of the war? In answer to that question all I can say is that we are at present making every possible effort to retrain men who are over that age and who have some degree of skill.

The hon. member also directed attention to a plant in Toronto which had been closed because its export business to Europe had been seriously impaired by the war and suggested that this plant could be used in manufacturing munitions or other war material. As far as the Department of Labour is concerned, we are anxious to see employment increase to the maximum. However, the matter of whether or not this particular plant or any other plant receives a munitions order or an order for other war material is something which would scarcely fall within the Department of Labour. While I am on my feet-

Mr. SPEAKER:

Is the minister closing the debate?