Mr. VINCENT DUPUIS (Chambly-Rou-ville):

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, at the request of the leader of the opposition (Mr. Hanson) the motion for concurrence in the first report of the joint committee on printing was allowed to stand. To-day I had the advantage of seeing a list of the documents some hon. members want to have printed. I have looked over that list, and from my experience I would say that most of the documents requested to be printed are returns, and generally speaking are of local interest. I do not believe it is the practice to print that type of material; this is the first time I have heard it suggested. Nevertheless, so that justice may be done to every hon. member, the question could be submitted to the committee again for its decision, and any action taken by the members of the committee will be agreeable to me.

Hon. R. B. HANSON (Leader of the Opposition) :

Mr. Speaker, at my request this matter stood until to-day. I have been able to give some consideration to it, and after consultation with my colleagues we request that items numbers 60, 60a, 60b, 98, 112, 115, 115a, 115b, 115c, 129, 129a, 129b, 129c, 134, 154, 154a, 154b, 154c, 173, and 175 be printed.

In addition to that I call attention to item 96a, respecting orders in council and proclamations issued under the War Measures Act. It will be observed that in January there were laid on the table-I believe some were tabled at the short session, if I am correctly informed -certain proclamations and orders in council passed under the authority of the War Measures Act. Evidently it was the intention of the government to have these proclamations and orders in council printed. I suggest that item 96a be printed. I suggest also that as subsequent orders in council passed under the the authority of the War Measures Act are issued, they might be printed in some convenient form, because it will be recalled that under the authority of the War Measures Act the government is, in effect, legislating. It is highly desirable that they should be available in some form, and for the duration of the war.

I make these suggestions in the utmost good faith, in the hope that the ministry will adopt them.

Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, I would ask my colleague, the Minister of National

Printing oj Parliament

Defence for Air (Mr. Power) to reply to the latter part of the observations of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Hanson) respecting the printing of orders in council passed under the War Measures Act. Attention is being given to that matter, and the minister will tell hon. members what is being done.

I shall turn now to the first portion of my hon. friend's request, wherein he asked that papers referred to by certain numbers, which he has set out, should be printed. I do not know to what those numbers refer, so it will be clearly understood that what I am saying now is not aimed at any particular item on the list. I realize that there is a natural desire on the part of individual members to have certain returns printed. But the printing of those returns, while it may serve a useful purpose in some localities, might be of small value outside those areas, and would fail to serve any extensive purpose. For that reason the house has appointed a committee to look into these matters.

We should be careful of going beyond the customary procedure as regards the printing of documents laid on the table of the house. In past years I do not think it has been customary for the committee to recommend the printing of individual returns, unless there was some quite exceptional reason for such printing. It may be that the numbers my hon. friend has mentioned come within that list; on the other hand it may be that none of them could be so classified.

I believe we would be wise to leave the matter to the committee for further consideration, realizing that its members will give it the careful attention it deserves.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

To a great extent I agree with what the Prime Minister has said. My own feeling is that if the country can save any substantial sum in connection with the printing of these documents-

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

And the translating.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Yes, and the translating, it should be done. I am informed by the clerk and also by the secretary of the committee on printing that any number of copies of these returns may be mimeographed, free of charge, for members desiring to get them, and that that could be done not only during the session but, upon application, after the session. I am in agreement with the underlying principle that no more of this printing should be done than is absolutely necessary. I am going to ask hon. members who are interested in this matter to confer with the chairman of the printing

committee. Perhaps they may be able to arrive at some decision. I would hope that we might save the country some money in this regard.

With respect to 96a, it seems to me that this is in another category. The government has already printed one volume of these proclamations and orders in council. I have gone through this volume; many of the orders are innocuous, but others are of great importance. Under the War Measures Act certain legislative powers are vested in the executive. While this should not be done in peace time, it is an inevitable result of war. I am not objecting to the procedure, but I do think they might be made available and be printed in a volume.

Hon. C. G. POWER (Minister of National

Defence for Air): Perhaps I might be permitted to give some explanation of the procedure with respect to orders in council which has been followed since the beginning of the war. At that time I was appointed convener of the legislation committee of the cabinet and as such it became my responsibility to see that orders in council passed under the War Measures Act received a fairly wide distribution. A registrar was appointed who saw to it that a number of hon. members, the leader of the opposition (Mr. Hanson) and the leaders of the other parties, received copies of all orders in council passed under the War Measures Act as fast as they were received from the privy council. There was a fairly substantial number of these orders, and last December or January it was thought that for the convenience not only of members of the house but of the public generally it would be well to have these orders in council which were of general importance published in booklet form. An order in council was passed on January 13, 1940, which appears in the book referred to by the leader of the opposition and entitled "Proclamations and Orders in Council Passed Under the Authority of the War Measures Act." This order in council recites:

1. That under the provisions of the War Measures Act, a large number of orders in council, many of them having the force of statutes, have been passed;

2. That many of such orders in council need to be referred to frequently by persons interested in the subjects thereof; and

3. That it is advisable that a compilation of all such orders in council should be prepared and published in book form, and that all proclamations should be included therein.

The object was to include in this booklet or pamphlet all orders which had the effect of statutes and which were of general interest to the public. Another booklet is almost ready for distribution, which will be volume 2.

Printing of Parliament

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

That will contain orders pased under the War Measures Act?

Mr. POWER:

It will contain proclamations and orders in council passed under the War Measures Act. I hope this explanation is satisfactory to my hon. friend. I think everyone will agree that there is no necessity for printing the routine orders in booklet form.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I agree.

Mr. POWER:

The National Resources

Mobilization Act provides that there shall be a distribution of the orders in council passed thereunder. It has been tentatively decided that orders passed under the mobilization act which had the force of statutes or were of public interest should be printed in , the Canada Gazette. I know the leader of the opposition has some objection to printing these in the Canada Gazette; he thinks we might just as well write them on ice. He is probably right, but we have tried to evolve some way of avoiding the trouble of typewriting and mimeographing them. The plan suggested is that a certain number will be printed in each addition of the Canada Gazette, so that members can file the copies separately and keep the orders in council in which they are interested apart from notices having to do with bankruptcy, promotions in the civil service, and so on. This arrangement is only tentative, and I am quite willing to consider any suggestion which may be made along these lines. I suggest that that is as good a way as any to avoid expense and save the trouble of employing additional staff in the office of the registrar.

May I say that all this was done before I ceased to be convener of the legislation committee. My place has since been taken by my deskmate, the Minister of Pensions and National Health (Mr. Mackenzie).

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

I think some such modus operandi as has been suggested by the Minister of National Defence for Air could be worked out. I should not like to have them printed in the Canada Gazette only. Perhaps they could be issued in such form that they could be bound in a folder.

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

They would be reprints from the Canada Gazette.

Mr. SPEAKER:

Is the hon. member (Mr. Dupuis) moving that the report be concurred in?

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

The motion is to refer the question of printing back to the committee.

Mr. SPEAKER:

The motion I have is to concur in the report.

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

The committee is to consider the matter further. Until the committee has had the opportunity of so doing, its report ought to be held up.

Motion dropped.

Hon. R. B. HANSON (Leader of the Opposition):

Mr. Speaker, my attention has been called to the question of the admission of tourists into this part of the building. One of the members of the press gallery satirized the present position in an article written for his paper. If a visitor goes to the senate door he is given a guide and shown through the building, even through this portion of the building if he wants to see it. If a visitor comes to the main door of the building he is turned away, unless he is vouched for by a member; and that is not often done because we do not have many visitors from our ridings. I suggest that there should be some uniformity of practice. Whoever is responsible should get in touch with the senate in order that proper uniform action may be taken. It seems a ridiculous situation that a visitor should be turned away from the main door of the building and that a policeman or somebody else should then whisper to him that if he goes over to the senate door he will be admitted.