Mr. GARDINER:

The experiments with

the tomato, two years ago I think it was, were rather unsatisfactory. The department is still carrying on work with the tomato, but it is not being recommended at present for further use until further experiments are carried on.

Mr. CASTLEDEN:

Will the minister give a break-down of this item? Are these stations being continued in exactly the same number as in the preceding year?

Mr. GARDINER:

The discussion that

took place on experimental farms administration really covers this item as well. The Rosthern farm is one of the branch farms. Practically all the discussion that took place earlier had to do with these farms. We are operating the same farms with the exception of the five.

Mr. CASTLEDEN:

Will the minister give the names of the five that are closed?

Mr. PERLEY:

The minister might make

a general statement with respect to these branch farms and illustration stations. I refer of course more particularly to Saskatchewan. I think he would do well to make a statement with respect to the value of these different farms, the work they are carrying on, and whether there is not duplication of some of this work in the provinces.

I should also like to make one particular reference, namely, to the wages being paid on these farms in Saskatchewan. I think the rate of wages is unfair; in many instances it is below the average wage for similar work. Of course some of the stations, like Indian Head, adjoin the town, much of the work there is paid by the hour, and I think the rates by the hour and also by the day are below the average paid in the district for similar work. I have had many protests along this line from men employed on the farm. How does the department arrive at these rates, and what changes have been made in recent months, or what changes are they making for the coming season?

Mr. GARDINER:

To answer the last question first, the wage schedules run from around twenty-five cents to twenty-seven and twenty-eight cents on the farms in the west; in the east there are rates as low as twenty-five cents, a little higher at some places because of the location of the farms near the cities.

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With regard to the uses made of experimental farms as illustrated in Saskatchewan, the Indian Head farm is one at which the general activities in connection with agriculture through the greater part of Saskatchewan are carried on. As the hon. member knows-it is in the vicinity of his own home-perhaps the most important work done there is the cereal work and the live stock work. Close to the farm some work is carried on in connection with forestry, but that is not on the farm itself.

At Swift Current the work carried on has to do with irrigation and field crops, the control of blowing soils and soil work generally, also experimental work in connection with farm machinery. Some work in connection with farm machinery is carried on at Indian Head as well.

At Scott most of the work has to do with cereal crops. Recently there has been some forage crop work done, also some work in the control of blowing soil.

At Melfort the work has to do largely with live stock and forage crops, forage crops being more required in the northern section than in some other sections.

That will give a fairly general idea of the methods followed in the establishment and operation of experimental farms throughout Canada. An effort is made to associate the work of the farm with the type of agriculture that is being carried on in the different districts.

Where fruit is the important item, then fruit is experimented with. For example, the Summerland farm in British Columbia, in the Okanagan valley, carries on most of its activities in relation to fruit. Then we have the farm at Morden, Manitoba, where much of the work is in connection with horticulture and fruit, but there is other work having to do with cereal crops. I think the most successful experimental work done on the prairies with regard to fruit is done at the Morden farm.

In this section we have the central experimental farm. We have activities in connection with fruit at Vineland, and there are the activities carried on by the province of Ontario at Guelph in connection with their provincial farm which does the work that more or less coordinates the whole agricultural work of this province. The same principle is followed right across Canada to the Atlantic coast.

Mr. HAZEN:

What was the gross cost last year of carrying on the experimental farm at Fredericton, New Brunswick? Also was there any revenue derived from the farm, and what was the net cost of running it?

Mr. GARDINER:

The gross cost of the experimental farm at Fredericton for 1940-41 was 849,545. I understand that the produce sold amounted to some six or seven thousand dollars; I have not the exact figures here.

Mr. SENN:

Animal husbandry is one of the main subjects of experiment on our experimental farms, and rightly so, because animal husbandry and the production of beef and pork constitute one of our main operations on the farms of Canada. At the moment I am particularly interested in beef cattle. I know that in a number of the branch farms and experimental farms in Canada experiments are being conducted with regard to the raising of beef cattle. I would suppose in other farms experiments have been made concerning dairy cattle of different kinds. Would the minister state how many experimental farms are conducting experiments to-day and keeping herds of beef cattle, and what breeds of cattle they are. Will he tell us whether they are shorthorns, Angus, or Herefords? Will he tell us, too, how many of those farms are conducting experiments in connection with dairy cattle? It seems to me important that the farms should conduct experiments in the particular districts in which certain types of cattle might best be raised. After all, there are certain sections in which dairy cattle can be raised to better advantage than can beef cattle. Would the minister give us a comprehensive report as to the different localities, and the different experimental farms in which experiments are being conducted in connection with various breeds of cattle?

Mr. GARDINER:

Beginning at the east coast we find that there are general purpose cattle, namely, the milking strain of shorthorns, at Kentville. Then, there are shorthorns at Lennoxville, Ottawa, Kapuskasing, Indian Head, Melfort and Scott. At Many-berries station there are Hereford cattle. Then, at Lacombe there are shorthorns.

Mr. SENN:

Are those shorthorns dairy or beef cattle?

Mr. GARDINER:

At Lacombe, Melfort

and Indian Head farms they have all beef cattle. On the other farms they have general purpose cattle, with the exception of the Many-berries station, to which I referred earlier, where they have Herefords. On the other farms across Canada are found the dairy types of cattle.

Mr. NICHOLSON:

What are the methods pursued to correlate the activities of the federal and provincial departments? In connection with this estimate there are appropriations for poultrymen, beekeepers and herds-

Supply-Agriculture

men. I understand there are pure-bred cattle at the Saskatchewan farm, and that they also have bees and different kinds of poultry. How is the experimental work distributed?

Mr. GARDINER:

The work done at Saskatoon is done in connection with the agricultural college. The same is true at Guelph. The provinces are responsible for educational work in connection with agriculture, in exactly the same way as they are responsible for general education. It has always been considered that the provinces, not the federal government, are responsible for education in respect of all topics. The same thing applies to agriculture.

In order to avoid overlapping, we have attempted to avoid placing experimental farms in the same. districts. That is why we have been desirous of closing up the Rosthern farm. That farm was opened before the Saskatchewan agricultural college was established at Saskatoon. Since that college was set up, there has been an effort to close the Rosthern farm. Finally, this year, we did close it in order to prevent overlapping in the locality.

However, while these are educational institutions, they do carry on experimental work for the benefit of the students. The very fact that this is done for the student makes it possible for the farmers in the surrounding area to receive the benefit from the experimental work done. They may receive additional benefits because of the educational work carried on. We have attempted to avoid overlapping by locating our experimental farms so as to keep them away from localities in which the educational institutions are situated.

Mr. PERLEY:

The minister has just made reference to overlapping and duplication of work. I believe there is a certain amount of overlapping which might be eliminated, through cooperation with the provinces. I have in mind particularly the health of animals branch. I know that in Saskatchewan the provincial department does a good1 deal of that work. That is only one instance.

The Indian Head experimental farm has been mentioned to-night. I believe the minister will agree that it is one of the finest experimental stations in Canada. Last Sunday I had the pleasure of driving through the central experimental farm at Ottawa. It certainly was a fine outing. We saw the beautiful display of flowers, and the wonderful work being done there. I would, however, point out to hon. members that I believe the Indian Head farm and forestry station will compare favourably with the central experimental farm at almost any time of the year, but particularly in the summer and the fall. I was there last fall, and had the pleasure of driving the hon. member for Peel through

those two farms. I believe what he saw was an eye-opener for him. We saw the flowers, the forestry and everything of that kind. Then we viewed the experimental work being carried on in connection with grain and stock. I would suggest that any hon. member who happens to be in that part of western Canada would do well if he were to spend the day at those two farms. I think all hon. members will agree that they are a credit to the dominion and to the department under which they operate. They are doing valuable work, and are real beauty spots. I should like to take this opportunity of expressing my appreciation and that of the people in western Canada for the work which is being done there.

Mr. HATFIELD:

Does the item of $49,000 include expenditures for experiments in connection with potatoes?

Mr. GARDINER:

Yes; the amount includes expenditures for potato investigations.

Mr. SENN:

I understand that a certain amount of work is being done in connection with investigations respecting the growing of tobacco. What operations have been or are being carried on? Are they still in progress?

While I am on my feet I should like to ask one or two further questions which the minister may answer at his leisure. Is anything being done by way of experiment in connection with the raising of landrace hogs, or have those experiments been discontinued? Further, wThat is being done by way of experimentation in connection with the production of flax? I understand that flax is an important item in our war effort, and is used in connection with the manufacture of certain articles.

Mr. GARDINER:

Tobacco experiments are being carried on at Delhi, at Harrow in Essex, at L'Assomption in Quebec, and here at the central farm in Ottawa. Experimental work in connection with tobacco has been carried on at all these places for some time.

A question was asked with regard to flax. Experiments in connection with flax fibre have been carried on at all experimental farms across Canada. These experiments have been carried on to the point where seed is being produced in Canada. Since the war started, this has been taken possession of by the government and distributed to producers in this country as well as in Ireland and England. These experiments have proven useful both in Canada and on the other side of the ocean.