Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

These

resolutions respecting the Excise Act need not take very long, but I think the minister should give the committee some explanation in regard to them. Perhaps he will put on the record the previous rates, the receipts by years over a period of years, and the revenue anticipated in the coming year. I should like the same detail with respect to malt and spirits.

While I am on the subject of spirits I would ask the minister to make plain just what the taxes on spirits are in Canada-customs, excise and what-not-so that the public may understand just how much of the purchase price of a bottle of whisky goes to the government. There is a substantial opinion in the country -it has reached me from every section of Canada-that the government in raising money by taxation should have resorted to further taxes on spirits, and in justice to the government itself I think the position should be made quite clear. Has the taxation on spirits reached such a point that it is thought that the law of diminishing returns may 'be in effect? I have an open mind on this question, but I do know that there is a substantial body of public opinion

no doubt it has been expressed to the minister-which objects to the government's not having increased the tax on spirits. There may be a good reason for it, but the whole position should be clarified.

Mr. ILSLEY:

Answering the first part of the question relating to beer, the present rates and the proposed rates of duty for malt, beer, and malt syrup are as follows: On malt, domestic, the present rate is 10 cents per pound and the proposed rate 12 cents per pound. On malt, imported, the present rate is 10 cents per pound and the proposed rate 12 cents per pound. The yield from those taxes-

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

On malt alone?

Mr. ILSLEY:

On malt alone, which is by far the main part of the beer taxes-nearly all of the taxes on beer are raised by the duty on malt. The malt duties to which I have referred yielded in the fiscal year 1940-41, 816,802,539.80. The estimated increase antici-

pated as a result of the new rate of 12 cents per pound is $3,360,507.96, so that the estimated yield from the malt duties for the present fiscal year 1941-42 is $20,163,047.76- which is a fine estimate, I may say.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

The minister must expect an increased consumption.

Mr. ILSLEY:

Yes. The duties on beer are unimportant, but I had better give them to complete the story. The present rate on beer, dutiable, is 30 cents per gallon, and the proposed rate, 35 cents per gallon. The present rate on beer, imported, is 7 cents per gallon, and the proposed rate, 12 cents per gallon. The yield-

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Before the minister goes on, when he speaks of duty, is he speaking of excise?

Mr. ILSLEY:

Yes.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Is there in addition a customs duty on beer?

Mr. ILSLEY:

On imported beer, yes.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

On imported beer; and is that the item referred to in section 3 (b), or is it only excise?

Mr. ILSLEY:

These are excise duties.

There is a duty in the customs tariff which is separate from these.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

What is

the customs tariff on beer and malt?

Mr. ILSLEY:

I am sorry I have not that information, but it does not make very much difference because there is practically no beer imported. Beer is a domestic product.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Does any ale or porter come under this? They are under the definition of beer?

Mr. ILSLEY:

Yes.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

Surely

we import some Guinness' stout and porter, do we not?

Mr. ILSLEY:

Very little. It is infinitesimal compared with the consumption of beer. The yield from beer, dutiable, in the fiscal year 1940-41 was $411,970.98, and the increased rate of duty is estimated to yield an increase of $68,661.83, making a total yield from that source for the present fiscal year of $480,632.81.

On beer, imported, the present rate is 7 cents per gallon and the proposed rate, 12 cents per gallon. The yield in 1940-41 was $6,874.96, and the increase is estimated at $4,910.68, making an estimated total yield of $11,785.64.

On malt syrup the present domestic rate is 15 cents per pound, and the proposed rate is

Excise Act

18 cents per pound. The yield in 1940-41 was $98,951.53, and the estimated increase due to the higher rate is $19,531.56, making a total estimated yield of $118,483.09.

On malt syrup, imported, the present rate is 25 cents per pound, and the proposed rate is 30 cents per pound. The yield in 1940-41, partly at 21 cents and partly at 25 cents per pound, was $9,729.41; the estimated increase due to the higher rate is, for the present fiscal year, $2,211.05, making an estimated total yield of $11,940.46.

Of course, the estimates for the present year, while I have given them down to a cent, will not, being estimates, work out just that way; they are approximations.

The hon. gentleman asked me about spirits. The excise duty on spirits is $7 per gallon.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

What is

the customs duty?