Hon. J. L. ILSLEY (Minister of Finance):

Mr. Speaker, I wish to lay on the table of the house order in council P.C. 1549, of February 27, 1942, amending the wartime salaries order and consolidating these and former amendments with the original order.

Standing Committees

The principal new amendment relates to war industries only, and gives the Minister of National Revenue power to permit, in specific cases and within prescribed limits, the adjustment of the salaries being paid to some individuals engaged in those industries, where there is good cause for such adjustment within the general principle of maintaining unchanged the generally prevailing rate for a given set of duties and responsibilities. There is also a provision for the adjustment of probationary rates of salary being paid to those who have been recently appointed or promoted at less than the normal rhte for the work they are doing. The recitals of the order explain the purpose of the new amendments, which I have had marked in the copies to be tabled.

Hon. R. B. HANSON (Leader of the Opposition):

Mr. Speaker, I wish to raise a question of general importance, and I crave the indulgence of the house and ask it to bear with me for a few minutes while I elaborate what I have in mind' as briefly as possible.

Yesterday the hon. member for Peel (Mr. Graydon) asked the Minister of National War Services (Mr. Thorson) if the annual report of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation would be referred to a special committee which might investigate all questions relating to the policy and management of that corporation and the minister promised that consideration would be given by the government to that suggestion. While the government is giving such consideration, I should like to have an associated but more general situation considered.

Each year the annual report of the Canadian National Railways is referred to a select special committee of this house and the affairs of that railway are investigated, but this house does not give annual consideration to the problems of other government corporations which stand in the same relationship to this house as the Canadian National Railways. My suggestion is that it become the annual and automatic practice that the reports of the Bank of Canada and the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation be referred to committees of this house in the same manner as the report of the Canadian National Railways. The report of the Bank of Canada falls naturally under the jurisdiction of the standing committee on banking and commerce and I suggest to the Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King))) and the house that we establish a rule

[Mr. Usley.) .

that that report shall each year be automatically referred to that committee, so that the committee may review the policy and management of the bank.

There is no standing committee to which the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation is nhturally appurtenant. We have a standing committee on railways, canals and telegraph lines, which formerly did a great deal of work, but which to-day has practically nothing to do. In addition, each year we appoint a select special committee on Canadian National Railways accounts. My suggestion is that we abandon the standing committee on railways, canals and telegraph lines and also the select special committee on the Canadian National Railways and create a new standing committee to be called the standing committee on communications and that each year the annual reports of the Canadian National Railways and the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation be automatically referred to such committee, so that the policy and management of these corporations may be subject to parliamentary review.

The creation of these government corporations in the past few years has raised an important problem of parliamentary control. In the recent past we have not exercised in respect of them the immediate and' direct control which we have over government departments whose estimates must come before us. I believe it is time that we assumed that measure of control which is necessary in *the public interest and I make these suggestions to the house, that the reports be automatically referred to the committees to which I have alluded, believing that it. is the best means of reasserting our right to control of policy and management and the best means of assuring that the public interest is appropriately safeguarded.

These corporations are government-owned and are operated for the government. They operate on the taxpayers' money. The day-to-day management is removed from government control, but the policies of each must of necessity reflect government policy. That I think is true. Therefore it follows that the peoples' elected representatives should 'be afforded the opportunity of reviewing their operations and policies. I urge the government to conform to this view and refer the annual reports of these corporations to appropriate committees.

There is another aspect of this matter which is worthy of consideration. The reference of these annual reports to the suggested appropriate committees would afford to the membership of this house a useful outlet for their abilities. There is, I think, a sense of frustra-

Precious Metals Marking Act

tion in the minds of the members. They are not given under present conditions an opportunity to take the part in the national effort which their position, their abilities and their desires warrant.

Mr. M. J. COLDWELL (Rosetown-Biggar):

Mr. Speaker, I warmly support all that I heard of the statement just made by the hon. leader of the opposition (Mr. Hanson). I have suggested during the past few years that we should refer the operations of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation periodically to some committee, but I believe the suggestion made by the leader of the opposition is in every way a better one. As the enterprises of the dominion expand1 and government ownership of public corporations increases, I think it is more essential than ever that there should be some parliamentary inquiry into the operations of these corporations. Now that we have the national railways, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, the Bank of Canada, and the Trans-Canada Air Lines, it seems to me that as a safeguard these corporations should be thoroughly looked into by the membership of this house. I am thoroughly of the opinion that such public corporations, while they should be subject to parliament, ought to be as they are now, corporations removed from political interference and control, but subject to parliamentary inquiry. I warmly support the suggestion of the leader of the opposition.

Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, without

wishing to be held too closely to exact approval of all that my hon. friend the leader of the opposition (Mr. Hanson) has suggested, I find myself in sympathy with the point of view he has expressed, and which has also been expressed by the leader of the Cooperative Commonwealth Federation party. It is true that there has been of late an increase in the number of government corporations and government-controlled corporations. There is every reason why parliament should at all times be free to exercise its right of inquiry into matters of public concern and especially matters which affect public expenditure. I would wish to look carefully into the suggestion of my hon. friend and discuss it with my colleagues before making a further statement.

Hon. J. A. MacKINNON (Minister of Trade and Commerce):

Mr. Speaker, yesterday on the orders of the day the leader of the

opposition referred to an order in council which was passed on February 23 in connection with the Precious Metals Marking Act. The hon. member asked why an amendment to the act was not brought down covering the subject matter of the order in council at the same time as other amendments to the act.

I would point out that the amendments made to the Precious Metals Marking Act by Bill No. 4, passed on February 23, are permanent alterations to the act. The amending act was planned and drawn up weeks age* and was actually given its first reading in the house on January 28. The particular matter dealt with by the order in council is an entirely different matter and was an emergency requirement due to the freezing of supplies of tin as a result of the far eastern situation. Manufacturers of silver plated hollow-ware are in the position of being unable to obtain tin due to the government restriction of this metal, and some provision had to be made immediately.

The order in council is effective only for the duration of the war and six months thereafter, and then automatically lapses. If the act had been amended to provide for this situation, not only would delays have occurred but a further amendment would have been necessary after the war to reenact the section suspended. Enactment by order in council allowed immediate action and avoids further amendment to the act after the war.

The change brought about is purely an emergency measure.

Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, some days ago the hon. leader of the opposition (Mr. Hanson) brought up for a second time the subject of censorship in relation to the censoring of letters of members of parliament and also as to the possible use of excerpts taken from communications which had been censored. I stated at the time that I would have a full inquiry made into the whole subject and report to the house later.

I wish to express my thanks to the leader of the opposition and to other hon. members for not having made inquiries from day today as to why this report was not being made immediately. I have been amazed at the amount of information which it has been thought necessary to place at my disposal and which I have been obliged to go through in connection with this subject; but having gone through it all, I have come to the con-

Censorship o} Members' Mail

elusion that there are very strong reasons why, on the subject of censorship, too much should not be said in public. I am therefore going to suggest to my hon. friend the leader of the opposition, the leader of the Cooperative Commonwealth Federation group and the leader of the Social Credit group that they meet with me at some convenient time when I would be pleased to place before them different aspects of this question which have come to my attention.

Censorship, it will be recognized, is a phase [DOT]of war activity, and if it is to serve the purpose for which it is intended, matters *connected with it must necessarily be kept very largely secret. However, I wish at once to say to hon. members with respect to the censoring of letters of members of parliament that we in Canada thus far have not begun to go as far as they have in Great Britain.

' I think it can be shown that the censorship of letters of members of parliament in Canada is at the present time on quite a restricted basis.

I wish to say further that such censorship as there is being or has been exercised with regard to members' letters has related only to matters that are of immediate concern to Canada's war effort or to the war effort of the United States or Great Britain or to that of some of the allied countries. There has been no attempt on the part of the censors, as far as I could ascertain, to seek for any information other than that which had an immediate relationship to some war activity.

With respect to references in letters to political matters I have been informed that the censors have had very explicit instructions. Not only have they been instructed to pay no attention to matters other than matters affecting the war, but I am informed that in fact they have carefully refrained from passing on any information in any letter that related to political matters. Nothing of the kind has come to the government from any source. It has been ignored entirely.

I believe a question was asked by my hon. friend the member for Parkdale (Mr. Bruce), which brought an answer from the Postmaster-General (Mr. Mulock) which seemed to imply that excerpts generally might be taken from letters and sent to heads of departments concerned. But if the entire question and the entire answer are read together, it will be seen that the only excerpts that could be taken from any letter to be sent to the head of any department were excerpts which related to some matter pertaining to the war. I am assured that such was the intention of the reply, that such in fact has been the case, and

TMr. Mackenzie King.]

that nothing has been taken from any communications and sent to the heads of any departments of the government from censored letters other than what has related to war activities in one form or another.

The question came up in the course of discussion a day or two ago whether a certain locality was included in a defence area. Well, that question helps to illustrate the point which I am making of the necessity of the government being very indefinite about what is said on this subject of censorship. If a defence area were specifically mentioned-as for example, Halifax, a defence area-and it were to be stated that the boundaries of that were at a certain radius, immediately persons interested in sending communications in a manner which would avoid the censor would, simply go outside of the area so defined and mail their communications there. That is one of the instances which help to illustrate why it is not possible to give the house full and exact particulars in regard on details of censorship.

My hon. friend also asked that the regulations regarding censorship should, if possible, be tabled. Well, that, I must say, is not possible. If they were tabled they would reveal information which relates to the United States and Britain as well as to Canada, and would certainly give sources of information or knowledge to the enemy which he should not possess.

These are some of the points which have come out of a careful study of the question. But I would add that I do not know of any aspect of the censorship matter which should not be communicated to the leaders of the parties if it will help to give confidence to hon. members as to the method in which the censorship is exercised, and I shall seek to arrange for that when we have our interview.

Hon. R. B. HANSON (Leader of the Opposition):

Mr. Speaker, I am obliged to

the Prime Minister for the statement which he has made, and which, of course, is intended to be reassuring. I would like him and the house to feel that I appreciate that censorship is an essential part of war activity. I have never controverted that principle. I do not see how it would be possible to carry on the war without it. I will reserve any other remarks on this matter until the conference is held; perhaps I shall then have a better appreciation of the whole position. But it is naturally an irritating thing to find that a letter-a political communication, if you will, and rather harmless -had been opened by the censor although it did not come from a defence area. That is all that I have to say on this point at the moment.

Easter Adjournment