June 4, 1942

SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

He withdrew from

his directorship in the Bank of England when he became convinced that there had to be a change in the system. And I declare before this committee that there must be a change in the system in this country-and a change which is a change!

The minister spoke as though I advocated creating the whole billion dollars. I did no such thing. If social credit is so palpably wrong, it is not necessary to misrepresent it in order to condemn it. The minister will find, if he reads my speech on that occasion, that I never said the whole billion dollars had been created.

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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

This was what the hon.

member said in his speech:

Social credit proposes to use the national credit to provide money without additional debt, without additional taxation.

There would be no more borrowing and no more taxation, would there?

Topic:   FINANCE
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SC
LIB
SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

He has increased the revenue of this country tremendously since the war broke out. He has come before us each budget speech and pointed out how greatly the revenues have increased. Those revenues have increased largely because of the increased income of the dominion; the increased income has developed as the result of increased production of the dominion; increased production in the dominion has come as the result of increased investments in the dominion; in many instances those investments have come from loans, and in many instances they have been loans from the dominion government. The loans have resulted in greater production, the greater production [Mr. Blackmore.l

has resulted in greater income; and the greater income has resulted in greater revenue, without unnecessarily raising the rate of taxation.

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LIB

Thomas Alexander Crerar (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. CRERAR:

Will the hon. member

permit a question? If he would neither tax the people nor borrow from them-

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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

I did not say I would not tax. I said, "without additional borrowing".*

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LIB

Thomas Alexander Crerar (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. CRERAR:

But, Mr. Chairman, the extract from the hon. member's speech, quoted by the Minister of Finance, if I understood it correctly definitely opposed taxation and opposed borrowing. If taxation and borrowing are ruled out, how will my hon. friend finance the war?

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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

I was just explaining, if the minister had listened. Perhaps he was listening attentively, but I know this is new to him. I pointed out that since this war broke out, the national income of Canada has increased tremendously, and that the income has increased because of the increased production in Canada.

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?

An hon. MEMBER:

The production of

what?

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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. BLACKMORE:

A wide variety of things. Mr. Chairman, I am going to finish these few remarks to-night, and I shall reopen the question to-morrow, when hon. members may ask me any questions they wish in the matter. There is not time to-night. This social credit is no fly-by-night idea; this is a sound and scientific system.

The minister spoke as though I had intended to issue the whole billion from the government. That is not so. If the minister had borrowed a certain amount, taxed what was reasonable, and then in addition to that had created what could be created, and used without causing inflation, then his economy in Canada would have been in a far sounder condition than it is to-day, and people would have been far happier.

Here is what he could have done. He could have used new money, like the $26,000,000 created in the last war, to subsidize the prices of primary products. That is, he could have given higher prices for wheat; he could have given higher prices for wool; he could have given higher prices for meat, and for any and every primary product.

The leader of the opposition's sneer as to fiat money would not have applied. You could have bought wool, or meat, or anything else, with the $26,000,000 created in the last war- fiat money, pure and simple. And it was just as good money as any money in the Dominion

(*See also page 3105.)

Hong Kong Commission

of Canada. That kind of money could have been used up to the point at which there would be danger of inflation through scarcity of goods. That could have been used to pay fair and just prices on all primary products. The difference that would have made to the agricultural population throughout this dominion is next to inconceivable, had it been applied for two or three years in this war. You would have had a contented and happy people who were getting out of debt, whereas to-day in Saskatchewan the doleful story is that they have gone into debt $50,000,000 deeper since the war broke out.

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LIB

Arthur Wentworth Roebuck

Liberal

The ACTING CHAIRMAN (Mr. Roebuck):

May I point out that it is now eleven o'clock?

Progress reported.

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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE


Mr, McNIVEN: May I ask the Minister of Mines and Resources if it is the intention of the government to sit to-morrow night and, if not, why not? There are some of us who come from distant points, who are getting pretty tired of staying around here with comparatively little to do. The other day the Minister of Finance stated that there was something wrong with the House of Commons. The other afternoon he further stated that it was high time we were having some regard for the time. I suggest to the minister he might well consider sitting on Friday nights-


?

An hon. MEMBER:

Saturday mornings.

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
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LIB

Donald Alexander McNiven

Liberal

Mr. McNIYEN:

Yes, Saturday mornings,

and Wednesday nights; yes, and even Sundays. I say that for this reason: The House of

Commons is sitting only twenty-four hours a week. We are asking labour in this country, in munitions, shipyards and aeroplane factories, to work seven days a week. Some of those men are working as long as sixty hours a week, and some, sixty-five hours. No attempt has been made to go into supply; the estimates have not been considered as yet. There is no reason in the world why some of the ministers should not be able to sit on Wednesday and Friday evenings, Saturday morning and possibly Saturday afternoons as well. Let us try to make some progress. We would be advancing the war effort by expediting the business of the house and bringing the session to a close, permitting the government to get on with its war work and the members to go back to their homes.

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
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NAT
LIB

Thomas Alexander Crerar (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. CRERAR:

The house has been adjourning on Friday evening at six o'clock by common agreement this session, and I do not think that arrangement should be disturbed without the leader of the opposition, the

Prime Minister and the leader of the Cooperative Commonwealth Federation party being present. There is a good deal of merit in the suggestion of my hon. friend the member for Regina City, and I would suggest that if he still feels the same way about it he might bring the matter up in the early part of next week so that we might consider sitting on Friday nights. At any rate it would allow the feeling of the house to be ascertained.

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
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LIB

Donald Alexander McNiven

Liberal

Mr. McNIVEN (Regina City):

Can it be

brought up to-morrow on the orders of the day?

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
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LIB

Thomas Alexander Crerar (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. CRERAR:

My hon. friend might bring it up to-morrow on the orders of the day.

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
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June 4, 1942