Mr. GORDON GRAYDON (Leader of the Opposition):

In order to enable us to scrutinize more closely and in greater detail the various governmental expenditures under the proposed war appropriation bill, I should like to ask the Minister of Finance if when he makes his statement to the house on the resolution he will give not only the total estimated expenditures of each department of the government but also a complete detailed break-down of the estimates of each such department.

Hon. J. L. ILSLEY (Minister of Finance):

I shall give consideration to that request. The practice last year was that each of the defence ministers gave the details of the proposed expenditures in his department and I gave the details of the proposed expenditures in all other departments. There is no particular reason so far as I know why the request of the leader of the opposition should not be complied with, but I should like to consult with the defence ministers to see what

War Appropriation

course they approve this year. Some of them in any event will give details at a very early stage.

Mr. GRAYDON:

My object in making the request at this time is to point out to the minister what we think was a failure in the practice adopted previously in connection with this matter. We are anxious to give the closest scrutiny to the war expenditures this year and it would very much help those of us who will have that responsibility to have laid before the house at an earlier stage than usual the detailed expenditures by departments. In the past, as the minister well knows, not until he had given his statement in the committee were these details actually known to those of us who wish to scrutinize them carefully and direct questions accordingly. If the minister could carry out the suggestion I have made this afternoon the position so far as we are concerned would be similar to that with respect to ordinary civil estimates. The expenditures under the war appropriation bill are by far the most important of our expenditures, and for that reason I should like the minister to give careful consideration to the suggestion I have made.

Hon. C. G. POWER (Minister of National Defence for Air):

I cannot speak for the Minister of National Defence (Mr. Ralston), but I think perhaps he would be in agreement if we were to table a break-down on Wednesday or Thursday-that would give us time to consult with the Minister of National Defence, who is away at the moment. I hardly think we shall get to the discussion on appropriations for defence until Wednesday. In any case if a break-down were tabled as soon as possible and printed in the Votes and Proceedings, would that be satisfactory?

Mr. GRAYDON:

I do not want to ask impossibilities. I rather fancy from what the minister says that his suggestion might meet our requirements. We are anxious to have the whole break-down available either at the time the finance minister makes his statement or very soon afterwards.

Mr. POWER:

Last year a break-down was put on Hansard covering all three departments, and I rather think that before we got through discussing the items of the different departments, the break-down on Hansard had been entirely lost sight of. If we give a break-down, under primaries, on Wednesday or Thursday-

Mr. GRAYDON:

What does the minister mean by primaries?

Mr. POWER:

The different items in the estimates. They call them primaries; I do not know just why, except that they are primary requirements, functional requirements, such as pay and allowances, civil government and so on, more or less as they appear in the ordinary book of estimates in peace time. If such a break-down were given, perhaps my hon. friend would be satisfied.

Mr. M. J. COLD WELL (Rosetown-Biggar):

Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the Prime Minister. Now that the address in reply to the speech from the throne has been adopted, will he suggest an early date when this house can meet in closed session to discuss matters relating to Canada's part in the war?