Hon. J. L. ILSLEY (Minister of Finance) moved the second reading of and concurrence in amendments made by the senate to Bill No. 72, to amend the Income War Tax Act. He said: There are many of these amendments, but nearly all are of a clerical nature, such as punctuation and the changing of the wording of marginal notes. Then, the session of 1941 is described as the session of 1941-42. In addition there are some corrections of errors, but there is no change in the sections, in principle, as explained to the house. In Mutual Aid Bill two or three instances the wording did not clearly indicate the intention of the government The measure was prepared hurriedly, and as a result there were some minor errors.

Hon. J. L. ILSLEY (Minister of Finance) moved the second reading of and concurrence in amendments made by the senate to Bill No. 69, to amend the Excess Profits Tax Act, 1940. Motion agreed to; amendments read the second time and concurred in.

Hon. J. L. ILSLEY moved the second reading of bill No. 76, for granting to his majesty aid for the purpose of making available Canadian war supplies to the united nations. Mr. JEAN-FRANQOIS POULIOT (Tem-iscouata): Mr. Speaker, if you have no objection we will make a visit to the mysterious arcade of high finance. I should like to refer to what was said the other day by the hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar (Mr. Coldweii) and by the Minister of Munitions and Supply (Mr. Howe) with regard to money given to other nations that needed it. There are English institutions that are much more prosperous than the Bank of England. For the year ended October 22, 1941, the total deposits in the Bank of England were £194,148,138 as compared to £181,166,295 for the twelve months ended October 23, 1940. During the same period in 1941 the deposits held by Barclays Bank were £710,077,244 as compared with £583,218,268 in 1940. These included current, deposit and other accounts, including balance of profit and loss, in two institutions, Barclays Bank Limited and Barclays Bank (Dominion, Colonial and Overseas). If we convert these sterling deposits into dollars on the basis of $4.44 to the pound we get $3,173,000,000 as the amount on deposit on October 22, 1941, which is just three and a half times the amount on deposit in the Bank of England. Barclays Bank Limited has its head office at 54 Lombard street, London, E.C. 3. Barclay, Bevan, Tritton, Ransom, Bouverie and Company were established as a private bank prior to 1694. They were incorporated in 1896 with other private banks, including Gurney and Company of Norwich and elsewhere, as Barclay and' Company Limited. The name was changed to the above in February, 1917. As from January 1, 1916, they absorbed the United Counties Bank Limited; as from January 1, 1918, the London Provincial and Southwestern Bank Limited, and a number of smaller banks at various dates between 1897 and 1919. Late in 1919 they acquired over 99 per cent and subsequently the whole of the share capital of the Union Bank of Manchester, Limited, which has been amalgamated as from January 1, 1940. Also in 1919 they acquired almost the whole of the stock of the British Linen bank. They own the share capital of Barclays Bank (France) Limited, which as Barclays Bank (Overseas) Limited was registered in May, 1922, to acquire the banking business of Cox and Company (France) Limited. The name was changed to Barclays Bank (France) Limited in 1926. In February, 1925, they established a new bank entitled Barclays Bank S.A.I. which was registered under Italian laws. They control Barclays Bank (Dominion, Colonial and Overseas) which is an amalgamation of the Colonial Bank, Anglo-Egyptian Bank Limited and the National Bank of South Africa Limited, also Barclays Bank (Canada) and Barclays Trust Company of Canada. Besides countless branches in the British isles, they have numerous branches, agencies and subagencies in all parts of Africa, such as the Anglo-Egyptian Sudan, Egypt, British West Africa, Cape Province, Natal, Orange Free State and the Transvaal, having 15 branches in Johannesburg; in all they have 302 branches, 74 agencies and 15 subagencies. They also have branches and agencies in Northern Rhodesia, Southern Rhodesia, South West Africa, Portuguese East Africa, Uganda, Nyassaland, Tanganyika Territory, Kenya Mutual Aid Bill

Eritrea and Abyssinia. They also have branches in Cyprus, Gibraltar, Malta and Palestine, but apparently they do not operate in South America. What is quite interesting is the intermingling of these various institutions. Mr. W. O. Stevenson, who is director of Barclays Bank Limited, is also director of Barclays Bank (Dominion, Colonial and Overseas), Barclays Bank (France), Barclays Bank S.A.I. and Barclays Bank (Canada). Mr. W. M. Goodenough is deputy chairman of Barclays Bank as well as of Barclays Bank (Dominion, Colonial and Overseas), Barclays Bank (France) and Barclays Bank S.A.I. Sir John Caulcutt is chairman of Barclays Bank (Dominion, Colonial and Overseas) and director of Barclays Bank, Barclays Bank (France) and Barclays Bank (Canada). Mr. A. B. Gillett is vice chairman of Barclays Bank (Dominion, Colonial and Overseas) and is director of Barclays Bank, Barclays Bank (France) and Barclays Bank S.A.I. Mr. L. G. Buxton is director of Barclays Bank, Barclays Bank (France) and Barclays Bank S.A.I. Mr. H. E. Seebohm is vice chairman of Barclays Bank and chairman of Barclays Bank (France) and Barclays Bank, S.A.I. Lord Essendon is director of Barclays Bank and of Barclays Bank (Dominion, Colonial and Overseas) and Sir H. E. Snagge holds the same positions. It is most interesting to notice how the directors of Barclays Bank, Limited, are also directors of other institutions. Many of the directors are also directors of British insurance companies. Mr. Edwin Fisher, the chairman, is also director of the Alliance Assurance Company Limited, the Century Insurance Company Limited and the Friends' Provident and Century Life Office. Lord Bethell is a director of Royal Exchange Assurance. Mr. David Martyn Evans Bevan, who is director of Barclays Bank Limited, is also a director of the Phoenix Assurance Company Limited. They are all bank directors. Lawrence Douglas Bevan, director of the bank, is also a director of the National Provident Institution. Lord Cornwallis, another director of Barclays Bank Limited, is also a director of the Liverpool, London and Globe Insurance Company Limited, of the Royal Insurance Company Limited and so on. Lord Rochdale, who is on the directorate of Barclays Bank, is also a director of the Phoenix Assurance Company Limited; Sir H. E. Snagge is also a director of the Atlas Assurance Company Limited, and Cecil Mercer Woodbridge, another director of the bank, is also a director of the Mercantile and General Insurance Company Limited. On the board of Barclays Bank, Limited, there are some well-known people, especially Sir Follett Holt, who has. large South American interests, and Lord Melchett, of nickel fame, who succeeded his father. He has large interests in Canada, and there are other directors who are interested in -coal and various other commodities. Coming now to the directors of the other London Barclays Bank, it is called Barclays Bank (Dominion, Colonial and Overseas). The chairman is Sir John Caulcutt, who is also director of Barclays Bank (Canada) Limited; W. M. Goodenough, deputy chairman; A. B. Gillett; J. R. Leisk, A. C. Barnes, H. R. Bradfield, The Earl of Clarendon, Sir W. H. Clark, C. L. Dalziel, Lord Essendon, Lord 1 Lugard, Sir Ernest Oppenheimer, Sir H. E. Snagge, and W. 0. Stevenson. The members of the London committee are Sir Henry Chapman, Major-General Sir A. W. Money, E. C. Ruggles-Brise. The bank has a New York agency at 120 Broadway, and here, too, are some people with high standing in the world of finance; W. M. Goodenough, a banker; A. B. Gillett, also a banker; James R. Leisk, of Pretoria, South Africa, who has interests in the gold mines and other wealth in South Africa; A. C. Barnes, and the Earl of Clarendon. The fact that the Earl of Clarendon is on the board gives the bank great standing because he is the Lord Chamberlain of His Majesty's household and has been since 1938. He is also Chancellor of the Order of St. Michael and St. George and of the Royal Victorian Order. There is also our old friend Sir William Henry Clark, who was British High Commissioner in Canada from 1928 to 1934, and for Basutoland, Bechuanaland Protectorate and Swaziland in South Africa from 1934 to 1939. Besides being a director of Barclays Bank he is also a director of the Southern Railway Company, Union Castle Mail Steamship Company and the Metropolitan Housing Corporation. There is also Charles Lyall Dalziel, who is also on the London Board of the Bank of New South Wales, Barclays Bank (Dominion, Colonial and Overseas), Investment Trust Corporation Limited, London and Clydesdale Trust Limited and of the London and Provincial Trust Limited, the Metropolitan Trust Company Limited, Realization and Debenture Corporation of Scotland, Limited, Royal Exchange Assurance, St. Andrew's Trust Limited and the Union Castle Mail Steamship Company Limited; also Lord Essendon, who is also chairman of Furness, Withy and Company Limited and of other shipping and insurance companies associated with Furness, Withy and Company Limited Mutual Aid Bill He is also a chairman of the Royal Mail Lines Limited, Director of Cunard, White-Star Limited, Chairman of Houlder Brothers and Company Limited, a director of Barclays Bank Limited and of the Sun Life and Sun Insurance companies. He is also a member of the committee 'of Lloyd's Register of Shipping; also Lord Lugard, former governor general of Nigeria, British member of the Permanent Mandates Commission, League of Nations, 1922-1936, and a director of Barclays Bank (Dominion, Colonial and Overseas); also Sir Ernest Oppenheimer, chairman of the Anglo-American Corporation of South Africa since 1917 ancl chairman of De Beers Consolidated Mines, Limited, since 1929 and chairman also of the following companies- Consolidated Diamond Mines of South West Africa Limited, the Diamond Corporation Limited, Premier (Transvaal) Diamond Mining Company Limited; deputy chairman of Rhokana Corporation and a director of several other companies; also Sir Harold Edward Snagge, director of Barclays Bank Limited and of Barclays Bank Limited (Dominion, Colonial and Overseas), and of the Atlas Assurance Company Limited and other companies. He is also chairman of the D. Napier and Son Limited; Sir Henry Chapman, resident director and general manager of Rhodesian Railway Companies; Major-General Sir Arthur Wigram Money of the Bengal civil service, who served in the Zhob Valley expedition in 1890 and in the South African and Great Wars. Some hon. members might perhaps say that this is just the ordinary course of business, that the directors of the London Barclays Bank are the directors of the bank here. But let me proceed a little further and then we shall reach a conclusion. We have mentioned two Barclays banks. Here is another, Barclays Bank (France) Limited, with head office at 54 Lombard Street, London E.C. It has eight directors: H. E. Seebohm, chairman; Lieutenant-Colonel Miles Backhouse, L. G. Buxton, Sir John Caulcutt, F. Fischel, A. B. Gillett, W. M. Goodenough, and W. O. Stevenson. On one pound shares they paid five shillings per share. The bank has eleven branches in France and also one in Monte Carlo and branches in Algiers and Oran. As this is a private company it is said that its balance sheets are not published, but this information is official. Amongst the directors one is not very well known to this house. I refer to Lieutenant-Colonel Miles Backhouse, a director and a member of the managing committee of the Compagnie Internationale des Wagons Lits et des Grands Express Europeens (S.A.), a director of Barclays Bank (France) Limited and of Cook's Bank Nominees Limited, International Sleeping Car Share Trust Limited, La Protectrice, Compagnie d'Assurance (Paris), Merchants and Manufacturers Insurance Company Limited, Thomas Cook and Son (Bankers) Limited, Thomas Cook and Son (Bankers) (France) Limited, Thomas Cook and Son Limited, Thomas Cook and Son Wagons Lits Incorporated. Another director of that bank is Frederick Fischel. There is also an Italian company, Barclays Bank, S.A.I., of Rome, Italy, established in 1925, under Italian laws. The directors of that bank are H. E. Seebohm, chairman; Duncan Balfour, L. G. Buxton, W.' M. Goodenough, A. B. Gillett, and W. 0. Stevenson. The general manager is Duncan Balfour. Mr. L. Levi was general manager for a time but he was replaced by Mr. Balfour in 1938-39. The story of Barclays Bank (Canada) is just as interesting as a novel. It starts a long time ago; and here is a list, not of the first officers, but of those who were on the board in 1931-32, when Mr. Bennett was in power. The president of the bank was the late Sir Robert Borden; the vice-president was the late Mr. A. B. Purvis; and there was Mr. L. A. Taschereau, a familiar figure; and Mr. A. A. Magee, of Magee, Nicholson and O'Donnell; Mr. W. 0. Stevenson, Mr. H. P. Alton, Mr. J. S. Crossley, and Mr. C. S. Macdonald. In 1934-35 Mr. Purvis was replaced by Mr. Charles Dunning, who was then out of politics before assuming again the role of minister of finance. In 1936-37 there were ten instead of eight directors. Sir Robert Borden, was president; Lieutenant Colonel A. A. Magee was vicepresident, and there were also Hon. L. A. Taschereau; Sir John Caulcutt, a new member of the board; Messrs. W. 0. Stevenson, J. S. Crossley, C. S. Macdonald, Hon. J. L. Ralston, Messrs. H. A. Stevenson, and Henry Borden. In this year Mr. Alton and Mr. Dunning were replaced by two new' members. Sir Robert Borden gave a chance to his nephew to get on the directorship of the bank-which cannot be blamed on the uncle or on the nephew. I put these things on record. You may say, what is the connection between these gentlemen, and why do I object to that kind of finance? One who pays little "attention to these matters may say, "Well, this is exactly the same as goes on here. They have some prominent men as directors of the bank, and it is the same in England." It is not the same at all, because English interests look after themselves; but here in Canada we have a bank which is controlled by outsiders, tc Mutual Aid Bill

drain Canadian capital out of this country. Think of that. Is there a Canadian bank which has deposits of an amount comparable to those of these two London Barclays banks? There is no Canadian bank which has an amount of £710,000,000 deposits?-a formidable sum; about $3,500 million. And what is the board of Barclays Bank of Canada, that bank which is controlled by Barclays Bank Limited of London? It is one of those that are controlled : there is a French bank, there is an Italian bank, there is another Barclays bank (Dominion, Colonial and Overseas), and this Canadian bank. Well now, the president, A. A. Magee, K.C., who is he? He is executive assistant to the Minister of National Defence-of Magee, Nicholson and O'Donnell, barristers, Montreal; president Barclays Bank (Canada) Limited and Barclay Trust Company of Canada; director, Dominion Rubber Company, Montreal Telegraph Company, Associated Screen News, Provincial Transport Company Limited, and McColl-Frontenac Oil Company Limited. He was a partner of Mr. Cook, K.C., who was the comet that shined on him. Another director is Charles Strange Macdonald, a brother-in-law of president Magee; president of Confederation Life Association, Toronto General Trusts Corporation, ^ Consumers Gas Company; president Dominion Fire Insurance Company; chairman, Dominion Scottish Investments. And now who are the other red-blooded Canadians who are on the board? Let us see. There is Sir John Caulcutt, chairman of Barclays Bank (Dominion, Colonial and Overseas) since 1937; director of Barclays Bank Limited, director of Barclays Bank (France) Limited, director of Phoenix Assurance Company Limited, director of the Eastern Bank Limited; director of Agriculture Mortgage Company of Palestine Limited; chairman of Export Guarantees Advisory Council of the Board of Trade; chairman of Executive Committee of Export Credits Guarantee Department; member of Board of Tiade Central Committee of Export Groups; member of Palestine Currency Board; vice-pi evident of Institute of Bankers. This is one of the good Canadians who are on the directorate of B&relays Bank (Canada) Limited, a subsidiary of Barclays Bank of London, England. Next, Mr. Walter Osborne Stevenson, director of Barclays Bank Limited director of Banque de Commerce Societe Anonyme (Antwerp), director of Barclays Bank (Canada) Limited and Barclays Bank (Dominion, Colonial and Overseas). He is on the central board and a member of the London committee; he is a director of Barclays Bank (France) Limited and Barclays Bank S.A.I.,- another red-blooded Canadian. Next let us take another red-blooded Canadian, Mr. Julien Stanley Crossley. He is one of the directors of our so-called Canadian bank and Barclays Trust Company of Canada; he is also a general manager of Barclays Bank (Dominion, Colonial and Overseas). There is another Englishman, of whom I have no details, Mr. H. A. Stevenson. Probably he is the son of W. O. Stevenson, who is interested in five Barclays banks as a member of the board-the only one of the illustrious gentlemen I have mentioned who is interested in all five boards. Here are other familiar figures. Hon. L. A. Taschereau is director of Barclays Bank (Canada) Limited1, Royal Trust Company, Caisse d'Economie, Sun Life Assurance Company of Canada, North American Life Assurance Company, and Liverpool, London and Globe Insurance Company-to mention some of his directorates. Mr. Henry Borden is director of Barclays Bank (Canada) Limited, and of Traders Finance Corporation Limited, Real Estate Loan Corporation of Canada, Limited, and chairman of financial committee for Canada of Norwich Union Life Society. Mr. R. J. Magor, another director of the bank, is chairman of the board1 and president, National Steel Car Corporation, Hamilton; chairman, Magor Car Corporation, New York, and the Canadian Chamber of Commerce; and director of Canadian Arena Company and the Ottawa Electric Company. This bank does not give reports as other Canadian banks do. All we have is a mimeographed copy of the speech of the president. It is impossible to get any report from that bank such as we get from the other banks. I have always been interested to get these reports. I have written nearly every year, although I did not write this year, but I got these reports; and that bank is so utterly imperialist that in 1937 there was not a meeting of shareholders in Canada; it took place in London, probably because nearly all the shares are controlled by London. To summarize: Why did I bring these facts to the attention of the house, and what is the conclusion to be drawn from them? It is very simple. In these circumstances I am not at all opposed to giving some help, as much as we can, to the British people in the form of munitions, in the form of food, in the form of arms, inasmuch as we can carry them overseas; and that is sufficient, proof that I am far from being an isolationist. But I am opposed, sir, Mutual Aid Bill to the granting of one cent to a country that is much richer than we are. How can anyone speak of British investments if we consider the investments of Barclays bank as Canadian investments? Barclays Bank (Canada) Limited was incorporated in this country just to drain Canadian money outside, especially the money paid by good Canadians for their premiums to British insurance companies. It is the same as Lloyd's. Lloyd's has never been taxed- why? When our insurance companies are taxed why not tax Lloyd's? It is not an insurance company and the act does not cover it. Why not make the act fit the case to allow of taxation of Lloyd's? Lloyd's is the greatest insurance society-it is not a company-in the world, and it makes lots of money. It insures ships and takes all sorts of risks, and yet it is impossible to have Lloyd's made subject to the law that governs all other people in the country. I am opposed to granting one cent to England, because England is much richer than we are. There is no loss of money. There may be loss of food or of munitions or arms and ships, but there is no loss of money. You know very well, sir, that no money is lost in crossing the Atlantic; money can be wired. I say, they do not need money.- It is a group of sharks that want the legislation to be enacted. These sharks I have named-people who have no foresight, people who do not realize that by imposing undue and useless sacrifices on the Canadian people with regard to money they are doing much more to destroy the British status of this country and to bring this country nearer to annexation than anybody has ever done. The hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar has spoken of a few people in Great Britain who are interested in financial schemes of the kind to control the whole of the money world. He said there were just a few people. There are just a few, but they are just as dangerous, not only to Canada but to the British empire as well, as the two hundred famiiles were in France. It is exactly the same thing. Let me observe one thing. Without making any comments I will bring the facts together. The late Mr. Purvis was a director of that bank. He was not in politics, although some very influential and strategic positions were given to him at times. He was replaced on the board by Mr. Dunning. When Mr. Dunning became minister of finance he was replaced on the board by the present Minister of National Defence (Mr. Ralston), who got in there at the same time as Mr. Henry Borden and was there under Colonel Magee, who became president of Barclays Bank. Afterwards, when the present Minister of National Defence came back to politics, the number of directors, which had been increased to ten, was and remains nine. There is still a vacancy on the board of Barclays Bank (Canada) Limited. I will not say that it is reserved for the present Minister of National Defence when he decides to leave politics, but what I will say, sir, is that Barclays Bank (Canada) Limited is just an agency of that powerful English financial institution, and the financial adviser to the Minister of National Defence, undoubtedly in his capacity as permanent acting Minister of Finance, is the president of that very Barclays Bank (Canada) Limited. He is the adviser to the minister in his capacity as perpetual acting Minister of Finance, 'and another of his codirectors, Henry Borden, is at the head of the controls and priorities in the Department of Munitions and Supply. If it is not patronage I do not know what it is. Let me say two things in conclusion. The first is that I have no time to waste in cherishing any grudge against the present Minister of National Defence. I never had any against Mr. Bennett or against the present member for York-Sunbury (Mr. Hanson) or against Mr. Dunning and Mr. Taschereau. I have always put them in the same bag. When I was fighting one I was not fighting that man individually; I was fighting the system he represented- procrastination and the reactionary spirit of all of them. They are all alike. I am strongly opposed to that kind of finance. I find that the advice given by these people cannot be in the interest either of this country or of the British people. It is in the interest of a few, the very few who are bossing such an organization. My last word is this. I want the Minister of Finance to be free from the tutelage of the perpetual acting Minister of Finance and of the interests that he has represented for such a long time, while he was outside this house, and which are represented now in his own Department of National Defence by the president of the so-called bank which is just an agency, and in the Department of Munitions and Supply by the nephew of Sir Robert Borden, who is now at the head of controls and priorities. I will ask the hon. member for York-Sunbury to listen to that because he will hear that in the valley of Jehoshaphat when both pages of the book are read. Why was it that it was himself and not another member of the cabinet who defended the Minister of National Defence on February 21, 1941, when I denounced him bitterly on account of his vicious theories and practice? He was the only one who rose. Was it on account of the friendship he had for Mr. Dunning because Mutual Aid Bill

they were both sitting on the same board? Dees he approve the practices that I have denounced? Does he no.t realize that these practices can endanger national unity even more than the partisan speeches he delivers so often? Let him put his glasses on and read some information that will help him in the future-now that he has time enough, or would have time enough if he were not rising all the time. It is not his business to rise and take the place of his present leader.