June 25, 1943

?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Order, order.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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IND

Liguori Lacombe

Independent Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE (Translation):

For my part, I will not withhold it. I will disclose it. I will produce the document if he refuses to bring it down.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Joseph-Arthur Bradette (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN (Translation):

May I ask the hon. member for Laval-Two Mountains to resume his seat so that I can give my ruling. The hon. member was to a certain extent within his rights in speaking on the resolution that is now before the committee, but I do not know whether he was in the house when, during the discussion on the four preceding departments, the committee unanimously decided that each item be taken up separately. The estimates of the Department of Labour are now before the committee. The chair must follow the directions given by the majority or unanimously decided upon by the committee of the whole. That is why I earnestly request the hon. member for Laval-Two Mountains to confine his remarks to the items of the Department of Labour. When the estimates of the Department of Justice are again before the committee, he will have every opportunity to discuss all matters pertaining to the administration of justice.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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IND

Liguori Lacombe

Independent Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE (Translation):

Mr. Chairman, while I duly respect the ruling of the chair, I am quite surprised that you should deny me the opportunity to discuss this matter, in view of the fact that the leader of the Cooperative Commonwealth Federation has been allowed to deal with matters of general policy this afternoon.

Some hon. MEMBERS (Translation): Order.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Joseph-Arthur Bradette (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN (Translation):

Order.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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IND
LIB

Joseph-Arthur Bradette (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN (Translation):

Order. I would ask the hon. member for Laval-Two Mountains to postpone this discussion until the estimates of the Department of Justice are before the committee. He may be sure that every opportunity will then be afforded him. Rules are absolutely necessary and must be applied, if our work is to proceed in a practical and logical maimer. I know that the hon. member for Laval-Two Mountains would be the first to support such a course.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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IND

Liguori Lacombe

Independent Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE (Translation):

The hon. member'for St. Mary (Mr. Fauteux), who is in

agreement with the hon. member for Labelle and with my fellow-member for Wright, has attacked members of the Progressive Conservative party, charging them with having demanded conscription and with being themselves responsible for the present labour shortage. Let us set the facts in their true light, Mr. Chairman. On February 19, 1942, I moved in this house an amendment to the address, wherein I demanded the exemption of farmers and fishermen and workers in war industries. The hon. members for Wright and for Labelle were the first to vote against it, and on the very day he entered parliament, together with the hon. Minister of Justice, the hon. member for St. Mary also voted against my amendment. A year ago to the day, the hon. member for Riehelieu-Vercheres (Mr. Cardin) moved another amendment calling for the exemption of farmers, and the hon. members all voted against it. Let there be an end of this tragic game, Mr. Chairman. Let the hon. members be sincere once for all. Actions only are important. Let there be no more great speeches. Let the government help the farmers, because they know quite well that our armies could not live without food. Seeding is scarcely completed in many provinces of eastern Canada.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB
IND

Liguori Lacombe

Independent Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE (Translation):

Due to bad government. Once again the Liberal government will not be in a position to say that Providence is with them. They used to say: We have a bountiful harvest; Providence is with us. Providence has forsaken them for very good reasons.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB
IND

Liguori Lacombe

Independent Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE (Translation):

As we,

ourselves, have forsaken them for similar reasons. As for my young friend the hon. member for Labelle, I wish him a long parliamentary career.

Some hon. MEMBERS (Translation): Order!

(Text) Mr. MITCHELL: I rise to a point of order, Mr. Chairman. This is a war appropriation

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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IND

Liguori Lacombe

Independent Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE (Translation):

Louder

please. Do not speak to the Chairman. I want to hear something too.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Humphrey Mitchell (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MITCHELL:

This is a war appropriation, and if my hon. friend wants to fight a private war across the floor of this house with one of his fellow members I suggest

War Appropriation-Labour

it would be better if he would settle it out in the lobby and let us get on with the business of the house.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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IND

Liguori Lacombe

Independent Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE:

I will answer the minister. I have the resolution before me. Perhaps I may not be required to read it because it is very long, but I submit, Mr. Chairman, that I am justified in discussing this resolution.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Humphrey Mitchell (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MITCHELL:

I ask for a ruling on the point of order, Mr. Chairman.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Joseph-Arthur Bradette (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

The hon. member for Laval-Two Mountains has still five minutes to go. A fairly wide latitude has been allowed the previous speakers in this debate, and I must allow the same latitude to the hon. member.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Humphrey Mitchell (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. MITCHELL:

That may be true, Mr. Chairman, but I do not think there is any justification for a ruling that a man can be out of order for another five minutes. That does not add up to me.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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LIB

Joseph-Arthur Bradette (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

The minister cannot criticize the Chairman's ruling. He may appeal. I have followed the debate closely; when a point of order was raised before, I tried to keep the hon. member in order, and for the last few minutes of his speech he has been in order.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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IND

Liguori Lacombe

Independent Liberal

Mr. LACOMBE (Translation):

Mr. Chairman, I shall not take up the full five minutes to which I am still entitled, but, with your permission, I would like to relate to the committee a very bewildering anecdote. It is not a product of the hon. member for Labelle's imagination; it was thought out by the hon. member for Montreal-St. Mary. He has claimed that Progressive Conservatives, the Cooperative Commonweath Federation members and the Social Crediters alike had demanded the implementation of conscription by the government. The hon. member for Montreal-St. Mary must have known that conscription was already on our statute books.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
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June 25, 1943