Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, a moment ago my colleague the Minister of Justice drew my attention to a statement made by the hon. member for Laval-Two Mountains which is of a very serious character. I had not up to that time observed the remarks to which my colleague referred as well as others and I was not in the house at the time they were made, but I find them in Hansard in the official report of the English translation of speeches delivered in French on the date indicated. The hon. member is not in his seat at the moment, but one statement which he made is so serious that I feel no time should be lost in drawing Your Honour's attention to it and asking that it be dealt with in accordance with the means taken to protect the privileges of this house. The statement to which I refer is as follows:

We have here in the cabinet three new millionaires who have made their money since the war's outbreak. We shall denounce -them at the proper time and place. Fortunes are being built up.

The proper time and place to make a statement of that kind is in this House of Commons with the hon. member simultaneously undertaking to prove the charge, or, if he is unable to do so, to resign his seat in this

Fourth Victory Loan

house. I submit, Mr. Speaker, that the hon. member should be obliged either to withdraw the statement completely or else to convert it into a specific charge to be investigated in the usual manner, and the consequences of the investigation also to be followed up in the usual manner.

Hon. J. L. ILSLEY (Minister of Finance):

I should like to make a statement with regard to the final results of the fourth victory loan campaign.

Total sales of bonds amounted to $1,308,985,500. This represented 2,669,111 subscriptions. These sales were made for payment in cash. The fourth victory loan, like the third victory loan, did not involve the issue of any new bonds against the surrender of maturing securities.

It will be recalled that the total objective for the fourth victory loan was set at $1,100,000,000, and that this objective was split, $500,000,000 for individuals covered by the general canvass and payroll canvass, and $600,000,000 for large investors, mostly business firms and corporations, covered by the special names canvass. Each of these objectives was exceeded.

Combined sales by the general canvass and payroll canvass amounted to $529,641,800, representing 2,661,759 subscriptions. In the special names canvass, 7,352 subscriptions were received for $779,343,700 par value of bonds.

The fourth victory loan was the largest public bond issue in the history of Canada. The outstanding feature of the loan was the tremendous increase in the number and amount of sales to individuals in the general and payroll canvasses.

By way of comparison, I wish to submit the following figures showing the results of each of the four victory loans:

Cash sales alone

Final results Of which

Victory of campaign Par value of No. of sub- Par value of General and payroll Special namesloan bonds sold scriptions bonds sold canvass canvassFirst

$ 836,820,250<1> 968,259 $ 730,376,250 $279,500,000 $450,876,250Second

996,706,900<2) 1,681,267 843,127,900 335,638,200 507,489,700Third

991,389,050 2,032,154 991,389,050 374,828,200 616,560,850Fourth

1,308,985,500 2,669,111 1,308,985,500 529,641,800 779,343,700

a>

Includes $106,444,000 par value of conversion sales. <2>

Includes $153,579,000 par value of conversion sales.

This record of voluntary bond purchases by the public of Canada is tangible and convincing evidence of the united determination of Canadians to win the war-it is a declaration of faith in the future of our country. The impressive record of these loans is also a reflection of the valuable and vital work being done for Canada by the national war finance committee, the organization entrusted by the government with the responsibility of carrying out our wartime public borrowing operations. The tens of thousands of men and women throughout Canada who are associated with this committee may well be proud of their contribution to the steady progress of Canada's wartime savings program.

In the budget speech delivered on March 2, 1943, I referred to the fact that some subscribers to victory loans dispose of their bonds over the period following the termination of the public campaign. I should like to take this opportunity to reiterate the statements I made at that time with regard to this practice.

Victory loan bonds are the property of their individual owners who have the right to sell them at any time they may desire. This right has always existed. No restrictions om the sale of bonds have been considered by the government at any time. When a person buys a victory bond, that person is making it possible for Canada to get the men and materials needed for war use, and, in addition, is helping

Fourth Victory Loan

to fight the home-front battle against inflation. When people sell their bonds, they are withdrawing this help. I recognize the fact that emergency needs for cash are perfectly legitimate reasons for selling bonds or presenting war savings certificates for redemption provided the person has no other form of savings which can be used, or provided the person cannot obtain a temporary loan, to be repaid out of future income, to meet the immediate need for cash. But sales of bonds to get dollars to buy things that are not essential are not justifiable. Unless it is absolutely necessary to sell victory bonds, it is every person's patriotic duty, and in his own best interests, to hold on to his bonds for the duration of the war at least. Buying bonds is important; holding on to them is equally important.

On February 9, 1943, I tabled a statistical compilation showing a classification of the sources of subscriptions, at time of issue, to the first, second and third victory loans. For the information of the house, I am tabling a statement in similar form showing the estimated derivation of subscriptions, at time of issue, to the fourth victory loan, together with comparable figures for the three previous victory loans.

All figures in regard to the fourth victory loan are subject to final verification on the receipt of reports of actual deliveries by banks, trust and loan companies. The figures which I have used and which appear in the statement I have tabled reflect the final reports received in Ottawa from the field organization of the national war finance committee.

National War Finance Committee Canada

First, Second, Third, and Fourth Victory Loans Estimated Derivation of subscriptions at time of Issue

The attached memorandum contains the estimated derivation of subscriptions, at time of issue, to the first, second, third, and fourth victory loans. Figures in regard' to the fourth victory loan are preliminary, as the final results of this loan are not compiled.

The subscriptions to each loan are divided into two broad classes, designated "individuals" and "non-individuals".

The class designated individuals includes two sub-divisions, described as "special names" and "all others". The amounts shown for special names represent subscriptions received in the special names canvass from individuals believed to be capable of 'buying $25,000 or more par value of bonds at the time of each issue. The amounts shown for all others represents the combined total of subscriptions received in the general and employee canvasses. General canvass subscriptions include sales to small commercial and small non-profit bodies, the aggregate subscriptions from which would be relatively small in proportion to the total amount shown opposite the designation "all others".

The non-individuals class has been subdivided to show subscriptions from banks for their own account; government accounts; insurance companies, pension funds, etc., and savings banks; and miscellaneous, this latter group reflecting, with minor exception, subscriptions from business firms and corporations.

These data have been compiled by the national war finance committee from information obtained at the time of public offering of the loans, and from other sources. The data should be regarded as estimates, and the results of the fourth victory loan should be regarded as subject to revision when final figures with respect to this loan become available.

June 19, 1943.

fMr. Ilgley.J

Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):

I wish to table copies in English and French of the inter-American radio agreement signed at Santiago on January 26, 1940, and adhered to by Canada on May 8 last. This agreement supersedes the inter-iAmerican radio arrangement signed at Havana on December 13, 1937, which Canada later approved on December 22, 1938. The agreement is an undertaking, of a technical nature, relating to frequency allocation for the different services on the American continent, frequency tolerances, international police radio and amateur third party messages.

Mr. GORDON GRAYDON (Leader of the Opposition):

Does the right hon. gentleman recall whether or not this agreement deals with the short-wave systems?

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I do not recall at the moment.

1. What are the names of the members of the national film board?

2. What is the organizational set-up of the board; how many are employed, and in what position?

3. How many films have been released to, (a) motion picture theatres; (b) for other use?

4. How many films in the Canada Carries On series have been released up to the 31st May,

5. What remuneration has been received from motion picture theatres for use of films up to May 31, 1943?

6. What was the total cost of the national film board, and its work for each year of its operation?

Mr. LaFLECHE: Mr. Speaker, in asking that this question be made an order for a return, there is a reservation in regard to part 5 of the question, which has been explained to the hon. member for Macleod.

Mr. GRAYDON:

An explanation may have been given to the hon. member for Macleod, but this is a question in which the whole house is interested. I would ask the minister to indicate the special reasons for the reservation.

Mr. LaFLECHE: The point is that the national film board advise me that it would not be in the public interest to give figures of rentals received from motion picture .1

theatres for the use of the board's films, because, they say, it would be of assistance to the board's competitors.

Mr. GRAYDON:

I protest and raise an objection. I am going to ask the minister to remove his reservation with respect to part 5 of the question, because it asks for information which the house is entitled to have. Certainly "in the public interest" is being stretched to cover matters which this house should not allow.

Mr. LaFLECHE: The remarks made by the leader of the opposition raise an interesting point. This is not the first time that this has been done since I have been in the house-The point is that the national film board is in some respects in competition with commercial companies; it is in the national interest that they have full right to make as good a bargain as they can, and they should not be put in a disadvantageous position by reason of information being made public. -I shall be glad to give the hon. member privately the reasons for the reservation, as I have done to the hon. member for Macleod. It is the position taken by the national firm board that makes necessary the reservation. I think it is the traditional position taken by them.

Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):

That explanation is not good enough. This is a government board. These figures refer to national revenue and' national expenditure; surely we are not going to vacate our position in matters of that kind. Who set up the national film board to say what is and what is not in the public interest? Parliament should decide that.