Mr. JACKMAN:

Further witnesses-

War Expenditures-Mr. Jackman

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

I ask for a ruling on that point of privilege.

Mr. SPEAKER:

There is no point of order. The hon. member has made a statement which can be denied afterwards, but there is no point of order.

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

I did not rise to a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I rose on a question of privilege. There is an imputation of motives which ought not to be permitted in this house.

Mr. SPEAKER:

Any imputation of motives of course is not allowed in the house, but I did not understand that there was such an imputation in the hon. gentleman's statement.

Mr. JACKMAN:

Further witnesses were called of whose evidence these objective summaries were issued. The hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar became, shall I say, increasingly hot under the collar because the evidence in all cases was not apparently satisfactory from his point of view.

Mr. COLD WELL:

Statements or evidence?

Mr. JACKMAN:

He then suggested, in fact he was very emphatic about it, that the proceedings of the committee-even though he and I had been associated together in demanding that these hearings should be in the open-should be either in camera or in open, and that this was a half measure that should not be permitted. In fact, he reminded one very much of his colleague in British Columbia, Mr. Harold Winch, who has no regard whatsoever for half way measures.

Mr. COLDWELL:

Mr. Speaker, I rise to a question of privilege. It is true that I objected to having the meetings held in camera, and the issuing of public statements by the committee from those meetings, either in camera or in public. I wanted them in public, and I object to the innuendoes being cast by the hon. member's reflection upon me personally.

Mr. JACKMAN:

It is not easy for me to cast reflections, if they may be so called. I consider them a plain statement of fact in regard to the hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar. Nevertheless when he characterizes me, as he did the other members of the committee, in the press across this country, as having attempted to whitewash the aluminum deal, and having succeeded only in making itself-namely, the committee-ridiculous, then I think I am within my rights, in speaking to this amendment, to speak on a matter of privilege.

The next point had to do with the scope of the inquiry. The Prime Minister read to the

house yesterday the terms of reference which had to do with war expenditures; and it was in connection with war expenditures that many of us volunteered to serve on the committee, at great cost to our time and to our pleasure, taking us away from our families, and so on. We did it because we thought we might in some small degree render a service to the war effort of this country and of the united nations. We did not wish therefore to be led far afield into matters which were not in the least relevant.

We know that at an early stage the matter of cartels, in particular the Alliance Corporation, was brought forth. It had nothing whatsoever, I submit, to do with war expenditures. The cartel, it is true, still exists to-day, but it has been inoperative for some years, and therefore it could not have had anything to do with war expenditures. Yet, what do we find? I read to the chairman the terms of reference, because I wished to keep the committee on a fairly straight track, so that we could get our work done, and not be as they were in the United States when these things came up. There the trial lasted two years. Evidence was taken much greater in extent than the material which fills the Encyclopaedia Britan-nica, and the judgment finally rendered by the court of appeal was such as to clear the Aluminum Company of America and also the Canadian company on all counts-

Mr. COLDWELL:

In a lower court.

Mr. JACKMAN:

-including the charge of being a monopoly, or infringing the anti-trust laws of the United States. So that the house may see just what fear was in the minds of some of us, if we were allowed to digress to something entirely outside the orbit of the terms of our reference. Yet when I made the suggestion that we should remain on the track the hon. member said-I have not looked up his words, but the gist of them was, "Well, if that is the case there is no further use in the committee sitting."

Mr. COLDWELL:

I did not say that.

Mr. JACKMAN:

We members of the house have some regard for the rules under which our proceedings are constituted. Yet we find that unless some hon. members, particularly, can have their own way, they are not willing to abide by the rules.

Mr. COLDWELL:

There is another statement; I would ask the hon. member to give me the reference. Give me the page of the evidence where I made any such statement as that.

War Expenditures-Mr. Jackman

Mr. GRAYDON:

We cannot produce the

evidence.

Mr. JACKMAN:

The reason I am asking that the evidence of the committee be tabled is that all members may see for themselves whether or not the statements I make upon my responsibility as a member of the house are justified.

Give the page number.

Mr. DOUGLAS (Weyburn):

Or whether your imagination is running wild.

Mr. JACKMAN:

I do not think my imagination is running wild.