June 1, 1944

VACANCY

RESIGNATION OP MEMBER FOR THE ELECTORAL DISTRICT OP WEYBITRN

LIB

Thomas Vien (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

I have the honour to

inform the house that I have received the resignation of Thomas Clement Douglas, as member for the electoral district of Weyfoum. I have accordingly issued my warrant to the chief electoral officer to make out a new writ of election for the said electoral district.

Topic:   VACANCY
Subtopic:   RESIGNATION OP MEMBER FOR THE ELECTORAL DISTRICT OP WEYBITRN
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PRIVILEGE

MR. POULIOT-REFERENCE TO INCIDENT IN DEBATE IN COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY ON MAY 29


Mr. JEAN-FRANCOIS POULIOT (Temis-couata): Mr. Speaker, now that your Honour is in the chair I have to rise, in the full house, on a question of privilege which affects every member of parliament. The matter is very serious. We have just heard an honoured guest state that we shall not be slaves of despots and tyrants, and that democracy shall be observed throughout the world. There are three committees of the whole house. One of them is the committee of the whole, so-called; another is the committee of supply, and the third is the committee of ways and means. The house ignores officially what happens before one of those three committees, and, as I was victimized while one of those committees was sitting, it is my duty, sir, to inform you officially of what occurred on Monday while the house was sitting in committee of supply, and when the item for general administration of the senate was before that committee. And I will do so with the feeling that the Minister of National Defence (Mr. Ralston) recalls the well-known grace of my race. The question that is of the utmost importance to all members of parliament, jointly and severally, as well as individually, is to know how many times a member of parliament has to withdraw a statement made in the house; and also, sir, if a minister can distort with impunity a statement made by a minister, and then call on the Chair for the withdrawal of a statement which comes from the lips of the minister and not from the mouth of the member who is supposed to withdraw the statement. There is a well-known rule of the house forbidding members of parliament to impute motives to their colleagues. It will be enough to remind Your Honour of standing order 43, paragraph (1): No member may speak twice to a question except in explanation of a material part of his speech which may have been misquoted or misunderstood, but then he is not to introduce any new matter, and no debate shall be allowed upon such explanation. Which means, as you know so well, sir, that provided that parliamentary language is used in a statement made by a member, if that statement is not reported correctly a member has the right to mention to the house what he has said. And how many times do members of parliament rise in this house to correct statements which appear in Hansard, in order to remove any doubt about the way they have expressed themselves on any matter which has come before the house? At page 3345 of Hansard we find the chairman stating that I had used the following words in speaking about the senate: _ They have completely lost any sense of shame in the senate, and with the exception of two or three-


LIB

Thomas Vien (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

The hon. gentleman is rising to a question of privilege in connection with a matter which was dealt with in committee of supply and upon which no report has been made to the house. Therefore the house is not in position to deal with the matter. If the hon. gentleman has any authority to show that he has the right to bring before the house something which was dealt with in committee of supply and there decided, I will listen to it. I know of no authority to permit the hon. gentleman to bring a question of this nature before the

Privilege-Mr. Pouliot

house and ask the house to deal with that which has already been decided in committee of supply.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE
Subtopic:   MR. POULIOT-REFERENCE TO INCIDENT IN DEBATE IN COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY ON MAY 29
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LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

It is a most unusual case-

Topic:   PRIVILEGE
Subtopic:   MR. POULIOT-REFERENCE TO INCIDENT IN DEBATE IN COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY ON MAY 29
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LIB

Thomas Vien (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

That is the reason why I interrupted the hon. gentleman. I know of no procedure to permit this. If the hon. gentleman can submit to me a rule of the house which would enable him on a question of privilege to deal with something already dealt with in committee of supply, I shall be glad to listen to him.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE
Subtopic:   MR. POULIOT-REFERENCE TO INCIDENT IN DEBATE IN COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY ON MAY 29
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LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

I thank Your Honour for

your question, w'hich I will answer as satisfactorily as possible. The case I refer to is unprecedented in the annals of parliamentary history. There is no case that can be quoted where a minister of the crown has distorted and falsified what has been said by an hon. member.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE
Subtopic:   MR. POULIOT-REFERENCE TO INCIDENT IN DEBATE IN COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY ON MAY 29
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?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Order.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE
Subtopic:   MR. POULIOT-REFERENCE TO INCIDENT IN DEBATE IN COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY ON MAY 29
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LIB

Thomas Vien (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

The hon. member knows that such language addressed to any hon. member of the house cannot be maintained.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE
Subtopic:   MR. POULIOT-REFERENCE TO INCIDENT IN DEBATE IN COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY ON MAY 29
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LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

I know that.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE
Subtopic:   MR. POULIOT-REFERENCE TO INCIDENT IN DEBATE IN COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY ON MAY 29
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LIB

Thomas Vien (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

The hon. member will have to withdraw.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE
Subtopic:   MR. POULIOT-REFERENCE TO INCIDENT IN DEBATE IN COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY ON MAY 29
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LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

I withdraw, but the word "distorted" was not complained of when I used it in committee and when-[DOT]

Topic:   PRIVILEGE
Subtopic:   MR. POULIOT-REFERENCE TO INCIDENT IN DEBATE IN COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY ON MAY 29
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LIB

Thomas Vien (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

The hon. member is speaking in the house and I rule that the word "distorted" cannot be used with regard to any hon. member. I ask the hon. gentleman to withdraw.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE
Subtopic:   MR. POULIOT-REFERENCE TO INCIDENT IN DEBATE IN COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY ON MAY 29
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LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

I will withdraw anything that is unparliamentary, but I say that the minister put in my mouth things that I .never said. I complain bitterly of this because I have been called to withdraw a statement that I hav'e never made. They were imputed to me. According to the whole parliamentary practice a member of parliament has the right to make a statement and to say exactly what he has to say for the defence of his rights and privileges in the House of Commons.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE
Subtopic:   MR. POULIOT-REFERENCE TO INCIDENT IN DEBATE IN COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY ON MAY 29
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LIB

Thomas Vien (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER:

I will admit that the hon. member has the right to rise to any question of privilege, but the hon. member well knows that a question of privilege should be taken up at the time the breach of privilege complained of occurs. The hon. gentleman had the right in committee of supply to make his protest with regard to any statement that was made, but there is no question of privilege when he brings before the house a matter which has not been reported to the house and which, therefore, cannot be dealt with.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE
Subtopic:   MR. POULIOT-REFERENCE TO INCIDENT IN DEBATE IN COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY ON MAY 29
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LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

If you will permit me, no question of privilege can be taken up in the committee. A point of order can be raised and then reported to the Chair. It was impossible for me to do that at the time because the notes had not been transcribed. I did not have the notes and I could not appeal the ruling to Your Honour so that Your Honour could decide upon it. Your Honour will agree that a question of privilege is similar to a point of order, but a question of privilege cannot be decided by the chairman of any one of the three committees already mentioned. That is one reason. The second reason is that the reporter's notes were not transcribed at the time. The third reason is that a member of parliament has the right to bring up a question of privilege before the house at any time in connection with anything that has happened in any committee. I do not want to use any offensive language; I only want to protest against the manner in which I was victimized on Monday last.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE
Subtopic:   MR. POULIOT-REFERENCE TO INCIDENT IN DEBATE IN COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY ON MAY 29
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?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Order.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE
Subtopic:   MR. POULIOT-REFERENCE TO INCIDENT IN DEBATE IN COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY ON MAY 29
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June 1, 1944