Mr. MACDONALD (Kingston City):

I

expected that my hon. friend would take that

Naval Service Act

ground, since he has taken it consistently throughout the session. The matter is one I must discuss with my senior colleagues, the Minister of National Defence and the Minister of National Defence for Air.

Mr. GRAYDON:

Perhaps this will be an easy way for both the ministry and the opposition to let the women in the forces in on an equal basis?

Mr. GREEN:

Paragraph (e) in section 2 reads:

"general orders" means orders and instructions issued to the naval forces by the minister or under his authority.

Who would be able to issue orders under the authority of the minister? Why should that not be done by the minister himself or someone acting as the minister?

Mr. MACDONALD (Kingston City):

There are many cases where the minister must delegate to someone, perhaps on the coast or in Newfoundland or in Londonderry, the power to do something. He, of course, would have to confine himself to those things which he had the right to delegate. There might be cases where it would be very convenient to the minister to delegate powers to make certain orders.

Mr. STIRLING:

The explanation reads:

There is no corresponding section in the present act, but rates of pay and allowances have always been and should, it is considered, continue to be fixed by order in council.

Mr. MACDONALD (Kingston City):

Rates of pay of ratings and officers have been the subject of order in council. I think that is one responsibility that should rest there. When you begin to regulate the pay of thousands of men-it is now about 90,000 men and officers- it is perhaps well that the governor in council should be the one to fix the rates. That has always been the case and it is being continued.

Mr. KNOWLES:

That is subject to treasury board now.

Mr. GRAYDON:

That is the shadow that falls over everything.

Mr. MACDONALD (Kingston City):

The treasury board considers the matter and passes its minute which is approved by the council as a whole. The treasury board has not the final word in these matters.

On section 7-Chief of the Naval Staff.

Mr. MacNICOL:

Is the chief officer in the British service and in the United States service a rear admiral?

Mr. MACDONALD (Kingston City):

No; they are of higher rank. It says, "not lower in rank, than rear admiral." His title is now changed to "chief of the naval staff" instead of "director of naval services." That has been the title ever since I came here and I think it is a much better one.

Mr. GREEN:

Is the minister in a position to give us any more details than he did during the discussion of his war appropriations, with regard to plans for a permanent navy after the war?

Mr. MACDONALD (Kingston City):

I

think I intimated at that time that there was authority from the cabinet to have a navy of some eight or nine thousand men after the war. That is the only authority we have, and I cannot add anything to what I said when the war appropriation bill was under discussion.

Mr. GRAYDON:

I suppose it will depend upon how far Canada commits herself in connection with the world organization with respect to an international police force?

Mr. MACDONALD (Kingston City):

I

fancy that would have some bearing.

Mr. STIRLING:

That was the understanding arrived at some years ago, was it not?

Mr. MACDONALD (Kingston City):

The complement was arrived at in 1941.