Mr. MICHAUD:

No; it was taken from

under the jurisdiction of the Minister of Transport by order in council in June, 1940.

Mr. GRAYDON:

And this makes it permanent?

Mr. MICHAUD:

No. The bill we have

just adopted defines the minister as meaning the Minister of Transport or such other minister as may be designated by the governor in council to administer the act.

Mr. GRAYDON:

You do not mean to tell me the governor in council has anything to say?

Mr. MICHAUD:

Sometimes.

Mr. GRAYDON:

Not after what happened in the debate to-day.

Mr. KNOWLES:

If the Minister of Munitions and Supply can spare a moment I should like to know whether there is anything comparable with this section in the air transport hill, covering the same situation.

Mr. HOWE:

No, Mr. Chairman. As I

pointed out to the committee when the air transport bill was under discussion, it has not been the policy to prescribe all the regulations that will necessarily be formulated by the new board. In turning over the administration of the airways to the board of transport commissioners, our difficulty has been that this board was too tightly bound by legislation. All the legislation that had been passed in connection with the railways was brought to bear on the air transport system, and the course of the board was often determined by legal reasons that were not practical reasons, and not reasons that judgment brought to bear on the question would indicate to be [DOT]desirable. In the Aeronautics Act the purpose is to have the board build up its own jurisprudence as time goes on, meeting each situation as it will arise.

Mr. KNOWLES:

By jurisprudence the

minister means the regulations to which he referred? .

Mr. HOWE:

Yes.

Mr. FRASER (Peterborough West):

Because of the fact that ships are able to pick 'up freight in central Ontario, take it down the St. Lawrence and around to Vancouver, we have a cheaper shipping rate to Vancouver by water than to Alberta by rail. In Some cases it is cheaper to ship to Vancouver by water and then to Alberta by rail than to send a shipment direct by rail to Alberta. What is the reason for that?

Mr. MICHAUD:

The rates charged by rail and water transportation companies have been subject to the control of the board of transport commissioners since the Transport Act was enacted in 1938. That was one of the main objects in mind in passing that act. There are differentials of all kinds in the rates for the transportation of goods by rail; there are differentials in the rates for transportation by water, and there are differentials as between rail and water transportation. These rates are established by the board of transport commissioners, who have the advice of the rate experts of different transportation companies, who consult with the experts of the board. I have not before me the details or the schedules of all these rates, but they are made by order of the board and are subject to appeal if anyone is dissatisfied with them.

Mr. ROSS (St. Paul's):

Are all the ports

of Canada under the jurisdiction of the dominion government?

Mr. MICHAUD:

All ports are subject to

some control under some laws of the dominion, but I think the hon. gentleman means to ask whether all ports are under the jurisdiction of the national harbours board. The answer is that not all ports are under their jurisdiction.

Mr. ROSS (St. Paul's):

Aeroplanes are out of the picture now, as far as this board is concerned?

Mr. MICHAUD:

Yes.

Mr. ROSS (St. Paul's):

Then who is to be responsible for the regulation of air traffic in the various ports? I am thinking of the Toronto harbour, which is under the control of the Toronto harbour commission. Who is to be responsible for the regulation of air traffic in that harbour?

Mr. MICHAUD:

The aeronautics board.