Mr. ABBOTT:
I have not that information, but I will get it and give it to the hon. member on Monday.
Mr. CASTLEDEN:
Another matter that I should like to refer to is in connection with the number of men who are now serving on the Italian front who have had more than two and a half or three years' service in Italy.
Mr. ABBOTT:
The number of men with more than two and a half years' service in the Italian theatre of iwar?
Mr. CASTLEDEN:
Who are still there.
Mr. ABBOTT:
I will have to get that information and give it to the hon. member.
Mr. CASTLEDEN:
I have one other question which interlocks with the Department of Veterans' Affairs. It has to do with soldiers' estates after discharge. I understand that on the death of a soldier the estates branch turns over the gratuity which he might have earned to his estate. What would happen in the case of a man who is discharged and is on one hundred per cent pension, but who had not received his gratuity allowance? Suppose the man died; what would happen to his gratuity? Would the Department of National Defence open up the estate of this man or would it be left to the Department of Veterans' Affairs?
Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):
The authority for the payment of the cash gratuity has been delegated from veterans' affairs to the various ministers of national defence; that is the cash part of it. The reestablishment credit part of the gratuity still remains directly under the Minister of Veterans' Affairs. In the case of a man who died or was killed a year or two years ago, that will be handled by the appropriate defence service. The application would have to be made by the person to whom his estate went in accordance with the terms of the legislation passed in, I think, 1940.
Mr. CASTLEDEN:
That application would not necessarily come from those who were receiving his portion of assigned pay?
Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):
Under the legislation of last year those who qualify under the regulations of the dependents' allowances, and those who are partly dependents under the category receiving assigned pay were entitled, but that was considered to be too limited. Now the cash gratuity of a deceased soldier, sailor or airman, goes to the person designated as next of kin in his estate.
Mr. CASTLEDEN:
That applies also in the case where the soldier has been discharged and has been on pension for say a year?
Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):
Yes.
Mr. BENCE:
In connection with that point I understood the parliamentary assistant to say this afternoon that in the case of the application of the next of kin or the one who
War Appropriation-The Army
is entitled1 to the estate under the will, it will have to be made to the Department of Veterans' Affairs.
Mr. ABBOTT:
This afternoon I was only referring to the application by the soldier himself generally. But my understanding is that, in virtue of the order in council which was passed the other day, payments are to be handled by the Department of Veterans Affairs. '
Mr. BENCE:
That is the point I am making.
Mr. ABBOTT:
That is correct. I am so informed, and I think the minister of Veterans' Affairs will confirm it.
Mr. BENCE:
But that is contrary to what the Minister of Veterans' Affairs told the hon. member for Yorkton.
Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):
No.
Mr. BENCE:
He said that it would be handled by the estates department of the particular branch, and that the application would be made to the estates department.
Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):
The records of the terms of the estate as designated by the deceased may be in the possession of the defence services. These must be communicated to the Department of Veterans' Affairs before the appropriate payments can be made.
Mr. BENCE:
Do I understand in connection with all these estates that the appropriate branch, whether it be army, navy or air force, will advise the Department of Veterans' Affairs as to who is designated in the will to receive that particular estate, and that will be done automatically?