September 26, 1945

LIB

Walter Adam Tucker

Liberal

Mr. TUCKER:

I am sorry I did not make myself clear. I said that as I understood the accepted policy of this government it was that the agricultural prices support board, and, by inference, the wheat board also, would see to it that they did get parity at all times. The figures show that they are getting parity on these things. My hon. friend shakes his head, but I can only take the opinion of the statistical experts. That is what they say. If at any time I can be convinced that they are not getting it, I assure my hon. friend I will do all I can to see that it is restored, and I think the Liberal party will support that policy.

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An hon. MEMBER:

What expert says

that?

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PC

James Arthur Ross

Progressive Conservative

Mr. ROSS (Souris):

No statistics will prove that.

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LIB

Walter Adam Tucker

Liberal

Mr. TUCKER:

You made your speech,

and I did not think it was a very prudent or good one for agriculture. Let me say to my

The Address-Mr. Tucker

friends of the C.C.F. that we watched expectantly when the Regina Industries Limited plant was turned over from war production. The people said, "Here is a splendid opportunity for the C.C.F. government to take over a factory and start, with a business that is ready to be taken over." Did they do that? No, they did not; they said, "We do not want to have anything to do with it." Right there the people of Saskatchewan marked down a question, "Do they believe in a single thing they are talking about?"

Let me give some advice to my hon. friends, and particularly my genial friend the hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar (Mr. Coldwell). Let them go on with their socialistic programme where they have a chance to do it and not just talk about it in this house. Let them put their theories to the test of actual practice.

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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. COLDWELL:

I always take advice

from a good lawyer.

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LIB

Walter Adam Tucker

Liberal

Mr. TUCKER:

There is another matter

with which I should like to -deal shortly, the question of foreign policy. I realize that the situation to-day is a delicate one, and I do not want to say anything that might make it more difficult. However, there are certain things I feel should be said on the floor of this free parliament. First, I do not think the council of foreign ministers representing the five great powers has any right to try to settle the future peace treaties of this world. I know it will be said that the council will just make suggestions, but the suggestions they finally make will lack only formal ratification because the smaller countries will not be able to change them very much if the council has reached agreement.

Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and the other united nations have played a sufficiently great part in winning the victory which has been ours to have the right to have some real and effective say in the settlement of the terms of peace. Further, the present policy is not working out to advantage, because I find the following which appeared in the Daily Herald:

We repeat our calm conviction that the international situation is more than alarming; it is becoming desperate.

And the following is from the Manchester Guardian:

Would it not be best if all were to return to the principles of the Atlantic charter which states that the powers (it was endorsed by Russia) seek no aggrandizement territorial or otherwise?

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PC

Arthur Leroy Smith

Progressive Conservative

Mr. SMITH (Calgary West):

Is that the Herald of Calgary or London?

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LIB

Walter Adam Tucker

Liberal

Mr. TUCKER:

The London Daily Herald.

I quoted that for the benefit of my hon. friends of the C.C.F. over there. In regard to this whole question of foreign policy, I realize that there seems to be a feeling on the part of the English-speaking world that there is such a passionate desire for world peace that they are determined to let no disagreement creep into the discussions of the future settlement of world affair. Because of our reluctance to express disapproval of some of the aspects of Soviet policy, the Soviet leaders are coming to think, I am sure, that they can make demands that they otherwise would not make, that the governments of the free countries of the world will give way for them, or, if they do not give way, sufficient public opinion will develop to force them to give way.

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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. FULTON:

Apparently the hon. member holds the view that Canada should have an opportunity to have her voice heard. I should like him to explain why this government did not see that this country was represented at the conference that is now going on.

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LIB

Walter Adam Tucker

Liberal

Mr. TUCKER:

If my hon. friend knew what was going on, I believe he would find that great pressure was exerted to have the various nations of the British commonwealth represented at these peace discussions. But just as in past times the Soviet objected to the British commonwealth having more than one vote, I think my hon. friend will find that there was objection to the British commonwealth being represented by several votes. My hon. friend has no right to jump to conclusions. I do not think he would suggest that the British government, which I am sure would like to have Canada represented there and have her fair say, would not want that to be done. I think when the record of this thing comes to be written it will be found that the British government was anxious to have the dominions represented there on an equal basis with themselves, but they had to take the five-power conference or nothing. It is very easy for my hon. friend to suggest that the Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King) should have gone over there, but as I read the dispatches he was asked to go over there and sit in the background and have the British representatives speak for all the nations of the commonwealth.

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PC

Harry Rutherford Jackman

Progressive Conservative

Mr. JACKMAN:

Oh, come, come!

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LIB

Walter Adam Tucker

Liberal

Mr. TUCKER:

That is as I read the communications, and so far as I am concerned Canada has a right to be represented in the councils of the nations of the world in her own right as a nation, and not to be repre-

The Address-Mr. Tucker

seated by anybody else. If my hon. friend wishes to have Canada speak through another nation, I believe he does not represent the thought of the Canadian people.

I was going on to say that I think the present situation is a dangerous one. It leads to claims being made that otherwise would not be made.

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PC

Harry Rutherford Jackman

Progressive Conservative

Mr. JACKMAN:

What does Mr. Bevin say?

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LIB

Walter Adam Tucker

Liberal

Mr. TUCKER:

I have read the debates in the British House of Commons and know what Mr. Bevin said. I think my hon. friend cannot have read it or he would not be asking that question. The fact remains that it is a dangerous situation, and the sooner we make it very plain to the Soviets that we believe just as much in freedom and liberty now as we did when the Atlantic charter was signed, the better it will be for world peace.

That brings me to another question, and here I should like to associate myself with an hon. member of this house who is other than of British or French origin. I am glad to see him in this house representing one of the important elements of our population, the population of Ukrainian origin. He had every right to get up and show that he felt for his own flesh and blood who he fears and believes are suffering on the continent of Europe. I put it to those of English, Scotch, Irish or French origin, if according to all the news they could get, their own people on the continent of Europe ^were being crucified, we would, I am sure have heard more from them than what the hon. member for Vegreville (Mr. Hlynka) said in his most moderate speech.

What is the situation now before the Big Five conference? The west Ukraine comprises a large part of the Ukrainian! population of Europe. The granting of the Soviet western boundary at the so-called Curzon line included the Ukrainians in the west Ukraine. At the Yalta conference it was claimed that these people thereby became Russian, citizens. Russia claimed that it was agreed that they should be surrendered to the Soviet authorities. Mr. Churchill insisted that the Poles in that area should not be forcibly repatriated, that they should have the right not to be sent back to their homeland and that if necessary they would be granted the protection of the status of a British subject. Incidentally, Mr. Speaker, when I heard that, it made me proud to belong to the British commonwealth of nations.

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An hon. MEMBER:

The Conservative

party.

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LIB

Walter Adam Tucker

Liberal

Mr. TUCKER:

My hon. friend say's "the

Conservative party". I say that it was the people of Canada of all parties who made the

great record of Canada in the past six years. Mr. Churchill, at the request of these beset Poles, said that they should have the mantle of British citizenship thrown around them, which was a great compliment to the British commonwealth at least.

But what of the Ukrainians? They were claimed to be Russians, and to-day the demand is that they be forcibly repatriated from the British and American zones in which they are to-day to the number of about one million. \\ hen attempts are made to carry out these orders, these unfortunate people, we are told, commit suicide or forcibly resist being handed over to the Soviet authorities. The Ukrainian committee in the United States has addressed a moving appeal to the president of that country to save their kith and kin, in Europe from being forcibly repatriated to the Soviet. The Ukrainian committee of Canada has made a submission to our government, from which I quote two sentences:

We have received information from Europe to the effect that the Soviet Union has demanded the repatriation of those Ukrainian refugees who came from the now Soviet occupied territories east of the Curzon line. In the name of humanity we appeal to the government of Canada to do whatever may be possible to prevent such deportations to the Soviet territories.

What is the situation of these people? We know that in the west Ukraine there were thousands of people who looked to the end of this war to taring them a free Ukraine. They wanted their freedom. They spoke for it and they worked for it. They were against being in the Soviet, and they were against communism-their preachers, their doctors, teachers, leading authors and writers-and for that reason they have been marked down, not as anti-communist but as fascist; for in Europe there is a tendency to say that if a man is against communism or in any way against being incorporated in the Soviet, he is fascist or pro-nazi. I would say to the members of this house that we do not want communism in this country-or most of us do not; we do not want to be incorporated in the Soviet Union, and we would not like it if we were called fascist for that reason. In the hearts of these Ukrainians there beats the love of liberty and the love of country just the same as in the hearts of Canadians, but they are branded as anti-Soviet, and we are told that for that reason they fear to be handed over to the Soviet authorities. They fear what is going to happen to them. Somebody might say: You do not know what is going to happen to them over there. But to use the words of Mr. Churchill, nobody knows what is happening behind the iron

The Address-Mr. Wright

curtain that divides Europe to-day, and if the Soviet authorities are not willing to let the representatives of our people and the representatives of the press come in to see what is happening over there, have we any right to doubt these people when they say they fear what is going to happen to them when they are forcibly repatriated?

And so, Mr. Speaker, I would urge this upon the government with all the feeling I possess: Do not let our Canadian troops have anything to do with forcing these people into the hands of those who they fear are going to liquidate them. Surely our great contribution to the fight for freedom was not made to have our troops in any way forcibly repatriate these people. Let them have the same protection as has been freely granted to the Polish people. I honour the representatives of Great Britain and the United States, at the Council of Foreign Ministers, who, we are told in press dispatches, are to-day resisting the demands of Mr. Molotov that these people *be handed over.

Once more I see the British people and the people of the United States standing on guard for freedom and liberty, and I am sure that, our government has been making representations to the British government of approval of that policy.

I hope that this debate may be soon concluded so that we can send our own Prime Minister over there to add the voice and support of Canada to the conscience of the world in bringing to pass an era of freedom and liberty which alone will only begin to justify the tremendous sacrifices that have been made to render it possible.

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CCF

Percy Ellis Wright

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. P. E. WRIGHT (Melfort):

Mr. Speaker, I find myself in the anomalous position of again addressing the house during this debate after having recommended in my last speech that the debate should be confined to the leaders of the four groups in this house. However that position is brought about through the fact that the recommendation of our leader, the hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar (Mr. Coldwell), that a day or days be set apart for a discussion of this particular subject which is brought up by the amendment of the hon. member for Souris (Mr. Ross), was not accepted by the government. Later I endeavoured to move the adjournment of the debate to discuss this subject, but you, Mr. Speaker, did not see fit to accept that suggestion. Consequently I find, representing an agricultural constituency, that it is my duty again to take part in this debate and to express my opinion and, through me, the opinion of the people I represent, on this latest amendment presented by the Progressive Conservative party.

I represent a constituency in Saskatchewan which is a mixed farming area. In speaking the other day, I dealt largely with this matter from the point of view of the wheat producer. Probably other members of this group are more qualified than I to speak to this subject from that particular angle, and they have already done so-the hon. member for Swift Current (Mr. Bentley) yesterday and the hon. member for Wood Mountain (Mr. Argue) the day before. But as residents of a mixed farming area where at least fifty per cent of our income comes from other than wheat, namely from hogs, honey, seed, and various dairy and other agricultural products, we are vitally interested in the establishment of some reasonable floor not only under wheat but under all the country's agricultural products. We have been promised that for a long time.

The hon. member who has just spoken, the hon. member for Rosthern (Mr. Tucker), stated that he has always favoured that and that the Liberal party has always favoured it. I should like to remind him of the delegations which have come to Ottawa at various times to try to establish that principle when the Liberal party had the power to establish it, as in 1940, and failed to do so. We certainly were not then getting a parity or a cost of production price; and if the hon. member for Rosthern had brought enough influence to bear on his government to have that accomplished at that time we would feel that he was much more sincere in his speech to-day.

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LIB

Walter Adam Tucker

Liberal

Mr. TUCKER:

I should like to ask the hon. gentleman a question. I suppose, in the first place, he is aware that the western-

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Some hon. MEMBERS:

What is the

question?

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LIB

Walter Adam Tucker

Liberal

Mr. TUCKER:

I ask the hon. member: are you aware that the western Liberals fought hard to have those representations accepted; do you suggest that a group from western Canada can dictate the policies of the rest of Canada; and do you suggest that if you ever got into office you prairie members would dictate the policy of the C.C.F. party while in office in this country? Just answer those three questions, and then you may have the right to say that I am not sincere.

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September 26, 1945