Mr. SENN:

Before we proceed with the discussion of these estimates, perhaps it would be wise to have a clarification of the arrangement made last night. At the close of last night's sitting the Minister of Veterans Affairs made the following statement:

After the conference of the various parties in the house the suggestion was made that once She estimates of the three defence services were approved, the measure might be adopted on the definite understanding that the rights and privileges of all hon. members should be reserved and preserved and that particular items under discussion and on which discussion might be desired would be open for the fullest debate on the corresponding items in the civil estimates.

I would point out that under war appropriation there are certain estimates for which there are no corresponding items in the civil agriculture estimates. There is $101 million to be voted mostly for the activities of certain boards that have been set up, but there are no corresponding items in the civil estimates few those boards. There should be some discussion because it is by far the larger item of the two. I would suggest that it be, definitely understood that at some period in the course of consideration of the agriculture civil estimates an arrangement be made to that effect.

Mr. MACKENZIE:

The suggestion I made last evening was as a result of certain discussions with various leaders in the house, with a view to expediting the work of the session. I understand that on Monday we shall take up Munitions and Supply and the Department of Labour, but there certainly must be a definite understanding that an item like the one to which my hon, friend refers will be debatable when the civil estimates come up.

Mr. SENN:

Is it the understanding that there will be discussion of these agriculture estimates under war appropriation, or are we to discuss them now under agriculture?

Mr. MACKENZIE:

The understanding is now, as far as I am aware, that on Monday next we shall take up Munitions and Supply and Labour and then adopt the war appropriation estimates, and any items which any hon. member wishes to discuss, which are under war appropriation, can be discussed on civil supply with the fullest possible rights. That is the understanding.

Mr. MacINNIS:

Did I understand that the parts of the waf appropriation dealing with Munitions and Supply and Labour will be brought up on Monday?

Mr. MACKENZIE:

Yes.

Mr. MacINNIS:

The other departments^ are in pretty much the same position as the hon. member for Haldimand has pointed out with regard to agriculture. There are items in the war appropriation that are not in the civil estimates.

Mr. MACKENZIE:

Yes.

Mr. MacINNIS:

I imagine that many of us would like to discuss some of them.

Mr. MACKENZIE:

The rights of all members will be completely reserved and protected.

Hon. J. G. GARDINER (Minister of Agriculture) :

I have been looking over the war estimates hurriedly. If the understanding is that when the item concerning dairy products is up, anything having to do with dairy products under the war estimates should be discussed at that time, I doubt very much if there is any estimate here that cannot be discussed. I would take it from the statement that that is the understanding.

Mr. MACKENZIE:

Yes.

Mr. GARDINER:

If that is the understanding I fail to see where there are very many items, if any, that cannot be discussed as we go along with the general items. If there are any I would suggest that they be discussed at the end of the general discussion of the civil estimates. .

Mr. SENN:

A number of boards have been set up under the war appropriation. Those boards have certain definite functions. As I understand it, the agricultural food board is responsible for subsidies on farm products among other things. I see no item in the civil estimates that deals with that particular matter. It has to be dealt with more or less en bloc. I suggest that that might be discussed under the item of administration in the civil estimates.

Mr. MACKENZIE:

I was going to suggest that that was the proper item under which

to discuss it.

Supply-Agriculture

Mr. GARDINER:

The boards referred to have to do with marketing. There is an item here on marketing which covers all the marketing activities of the department. It consists of the same people who are on the boards that cover the question of .marketing as related to the war. Items 22, 23, 24, 25 and all the way down have to do -with that. Subsidies come under item 25; subsidies come under cold storage, and there are subsidies under the others. I would suggest that it would expedite the discussion if we tried to conduct all our discussions on marketing under the marketing items, even where it covers boards which are concerned with marketing; . otherwise we shall discuss it two or three times.

Mr. SENN:

What about the activities of the agricultural supplies board? Would those come' under production, or where? We want to have a definite understanding; that is all.

Mr. GARDINER:

I think the items of the supplies board would properly come under production, but I might say that I do not think it would foe possible for me to suggest that items having to do with dairy products in the supplies board could not be discussed when we are discussing dairy products; the items are so closely interwoven I do not think it is possible to discuss one without the other. All our activities during the war relating to the production of dairy products have been associated with the agreements which were made by the supplies board in the early part of the war, or by some subcommittee of the supplies board.