Hon. J. A. MacKINNON (Minister of Trade and Commerce):

Mr. Speaker, I wish to make a brief statement in connection with wh-eat.

Wheat

The government will 'Continue the present initial payment of $1.25 per bushel basis No. 1 northern in store Fort William-Port Arthur or Vancouver for another crop year up to July 31, 1947. There will be no over-all restriction on the deliveries of wheat during 1946-47, although temporary delivery quotas will probably be used in the early part of the marketing season to distribute local elevator space as evenly as possible among the producers. Delivery permit books will be used again.

Discussions are continuing with regard to other items in the 1946-47 grain programme, and further announcements will be made as decisions are reached. These announcements will include the prices to be paid for oats, barley, flaxseed, rapeeeed and sunflower seed in the western provinces and for winter wheat grown in Ontario and marketed in 1946-47.

To cover one of the points in the new food programme, a statement will also be made soon on the procedure to be followed in an effort to expedite the delivery of wheat in western Canada. This will be along the lines of encouraging immediate delivery of wheat.

The hon. member for Rosthern (Mr. Tucker), the hon. member for Maple Creek (Mr. McCuaig) and the leader of the opposition (Mr. Bracken) have advised me that they purpose asking questions today with regard to the payments on the participation certificates for the 1943-44 wheat crop. I have this statement ready and I am taking advantage of this opportunity to make it. I believe it will at least cover, as far as I am able to do so at this moment, the information sought by these hon. members.

The payments on the participation certificates for the 1943-44 wheat crop will be started by the Canadian wheat board in June of this year. The 1944-45 barley equalization payments will be made in the month of May. Both of these payments apply to the prairie provinces. The payments on the 1944-45 Ontario wheat equalization fund will begin in May.

While the accounting and auditing on these payments are well advanced, it is not possible at this date to announce the amount of each payment to be made. That announcement will be made just as soon as possible.

May I also take this opportunity to state that I am fully aware of the anxiety existing, particularly in certain parts of western Canada, for the earliest possible payment of these wheat participation certificates. The hon. member for Maple Creek asked if it would not be possible to select the most needy areas in western Canada for prepayment. We have discussed that suggestion with the wheat board,

and have been advised that it is not possible to make payments in one district in advance of the general payment across western Canada, but -that when payments are being made in June it will be possible to make the first cheques payable in those particular districts. The matter of getting out these payments is purely a physical one, a matter of staff and space.

Mr. BRACKEN:

The question I sent the minister a while ago was prompted by the urgent requests of those interested in the matter. I gather from the minister that the dates he has mentioned are the earliest at which it is practicable to have the payments made. In that event I suppose we shall have to accept the situation, and I want to thank the minister for giving us this information.

Mr. W. A. TUCKER (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Veterans Affairs):

Yesterday the hon. member for Assiniboia (Mr. McCullough) asked a question of the Minister of Veterans Affairs, as follows:

In view of tihe urgency of increasing 'agricultural] product ion- and of the early and satisfactory reestablishment of veterans on farms, would the minister give immediate consideration to allowing veterans not coming under the Veterans Land Act, but who wish to become boraa fide farmers, the same priorities and discounts for farm machinery as those who now come under the Veterans Land Act?

The Minister of Veterans Affairs has no control of farm machinery which is not purchased for the use of veterans being established under the Veterans Land Act. In the early months of 1945 arrangements were put into effect whereby a certificate of identification was provided by the Veterans Land Act administration to establish the agricultural bona fides and service with the armed forces of persons not being established under the provisions of the Veterans Land Act. The farm implement industiy undertook to give preferred treatment to veterans in possession of such certificates. According to my information this undertaking has been implemented as far as available supplies and farming machinery would permit.

Discounts available to veterans being established under the Veterans Land Act derive from bulk orders placed by the director of the Veterans Land Act many months prior to delivery dates and are direct sales to the government.

The Address-Mr. Burton

Discounts to veterans not being established under the Veterans Land Act are solely at the discretion of the implement industry but it is the information of the director of the Veterans Land Act that many implement dealers have in fact granted discounts to veterans in possession of certificates issued by the Veterans Land Act administration.

According to present indications the farm tractor equipment ordered by the director for delivery in the spring of 1946 will be insufficient to meet requirements of veterans being established under the act this year. Consequently it is very unlikely that any such equipment can be released by the director for other disposition by the machinery companies.

Mr. R. W. MAYHEW (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Finance):

Yesterday the hon. member for Peterborough West (Mr. Fraser) asked if there was any chance of the government easing the rationing of maple syrup or maple products in order that production might be increased.

The answer is that there is no intention of removing maple syrup from the ration this season. This decision is supported by recommendations for the continuance of rationing and other controls which have been received from the representatives of the maple syrup producers and processors. As in previous years, the coupon value of maple syrup has been doubled for the duration of the active producing season; in other words, until May 31 maple syrup can be procured at the rate of one gallon for two sugar-preserves coupons. The ration regulations for 1946 will leave the producers and consumers in the same position as in 1945.

There is no indication that the ration regulations have curtailed or will curtail production.

Hon. DOUGLAS ABBOTT (Minister of National Defence):

I realize, Mr. Speaker, that this is a question of urgent public importance. Personally I would very much regret it if the wearing of the kilt were to be abolished. The answer to my hon. friend's question is that the wearing of the kilt will continue to be autnorized for walking out purposes, but that, as in the other arms of the service, battle dress will be worn for operational duties.

Mr. J. W. BURTON (Humboldt):

Mr. Speaker, at the adjournment last night I was referring to how badly the capitalist system had failed us in the years prior to the war, and to the fact that eventually it would break down completely and lead the people of the nation to inevitable disaster. I also stated that we did not have to go to the extreme right or to the extreme left, but that there was a middle way. Should there be any doubt in the minds of hon. members as to the path I intend to follow, let me hasten to assure them that I have always believed in moderation in all things. With that same thought in mind, thousands of people from all parts of Canada banded themselves together under the banner of the C.C.F., which they themselves wove. Together they planned and are continuing to plan that middle way, step by step. Their Ultimate goal is the common brotherhood of man under the fatherhood of God.

I also said there was no hope of the capitalist system serving us properly in the future. Apparently, by its attitude, the government does not believe that. Again I could bring many witnesses to prove my case. However, time permits only the calling of one, and that, by the way is a friend of the government. I should like to quote from a pamphlet issued by the Canadian federation of agriculture, entitled "Principles of post-war reconstruction for agriculture" in which they quote Mr. Donald Gordon, chairman of the wartime prices and trade board, as having said:

Selfish and private interests roust be ruled out completely and the competitive system must be replaced with one which is based entirely upon the criterion of maximum production . . .

While I have this pamphlet in my hand I should like to continue and quote what the Canadian federation of agriculture had to say on the same page:

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The Address-Mr. Burton

Mr. GARDINER:

I did not mention any reduction programme. I indicated there has been a programme for increased food production throughout the war and that programme is continuing.

Mr. BURTON:

At the same time the minister went to great pains and attempted to take great credit for what he had done in the past. I would agree that he deserves some little credit, but would suggest that there are others who deserve a lot more.

In connection with the reduction programme I think I should tell a little story-and it is a true story. For years it had been my practice every spring to buy four cans of gopher poison to be distributed so as to prevent those rodents from destroying too much of my crop. This spring, when the announcement of the reduction programme was made, I had already secured my four cans. The customary procedure is to mix a spoonful of the poison with some wheat or oats, leaving it in places where the gophers may find and eat it. That is the end of the gophers and they do not destroy any further crop. I had laid out one can of the poison, after which for some reason or other I had to go to town. While in town I ran smack up against a

The Address-Mr. Burton

poster on which were these words, "Less wheat in 1941 will help win the war." This, it states, was published by the authority of the Hon. J. G. Gardiner, federal Minister of Agriculture. You know, when I returned home I simply did not have the heart to lay out those other three cans of gopher poison. For a while I rebelled at the idea of reduction; as a tiller of the soil it went against my grain to think that less of anything in the nature of food could be a blessing. Eventually however, like thousands of other farmers, I fell into line.

To-day, reading these words in the speech from the throne, that hunger, privation and suffering have become the lot of millions, the few dollars gained by reduction of wheat acreage remind me of the thirty pieces of silver. To the extent that I benefited from the minister's ill advice, just to that extent I accept my share of the responsibility. But may I remind you, Mr. Speaker, that for several years my colleagues and I endeavoured to warn the Minister of Agriculture, and the government to which he belongs, of the crisis that is now confronting us. If time permitted I could quote speeches made in the house-yes, even back to the time I sat in the Saskatchewan legislature. But our warnings went unheeded. From time to time the minister even attempted to ridicule us for our fears, and made light of our suggestions.

Let me quote further from the speech from the throne:

Of world problems demanding immediate 'action, the most pressing is the provision of food ho those peoples facing acute shortage and, in some regions, widespread famine.

The chance of a peaceful reconstruction of the world depends on food. The shortage at the present time is very great. The problem, moreover, is not only for the next few months, but also for the next few years. Unless the need is met, grave disorders, endangering peace itself, must be anticipated.

The government is seeking by all practicable means to make 'available for export the maximum supply of foodstuffs. Every encouragement is being given1 to increasing production. The gravity of the situation demands, on the part of the people of Canada, a united 'and wholehearted effort.

Let me call special attention to that last sentence, and emphasize the necessity of a united and whole-hearted effort. I agree with that in full, and I can assure the government, on behalf of my colleagues and myself, and I believe on behalf of the great majority of the producers of foodstuffs, that there will be whole-hearted cooperation on their part.

The preceding paragraph in the speech from the throne states that every encouragement is being given to increasing production. That is

so far from the truth that were I to repeat what most farmers have to say about it, my language would certainly not be parliamentary. Suffice it to say that instead of every encouragement being given to us to increase production, quite the oontrary is the fact. So vital is this question that I should like to place on the record a resolution which was passed unanimously on the seventh of this month by the Saskatchewan legislature. It reads:

That this legislative assembly of 'Saskatchewan pledge the support of the people of Saskatchewan to the hungry peoples of the world in the vital battle of bread now being fought, and request the governments of Saskatchewan and Canada, respectively, to make ia special effort to increase production of foodstuffs to meet this emergency, and to encourage the utilization of the adequate farm labour supply now made available through demobilization of the armed forces, members of which are only too anxious to work in this new and important battle.

Furthermore I would add that the Saskatchewan minister of agriculture, Hon. I. C. Nollett and his department are going all out on an increased production programme. They believe in displaying some action, not just merely using words. The only action that counts at a time like this is to make it possible for the farmers to produce every pound, of foodstuffs that their farms are capable of producing. Should there be any one so deaf to the cries of the hungry, permit me to read again these few lines:

Of world problems demanding immediate action, tbe most pressing is the provision of food-

And again:

Hunger, privation and suffering, have become the lot of millions.

The only worth-while action that can be taken to meet the situation is an all-out production programme, but if the farmers are to accomplish the task before them they must have more just and equitable treatment than they have had as a rule in the past. We realize also that if the farmers are to win this battle of food they must have the protection of a long-range programme. What do the farmers want in such a long-range programme? I have numbered their desires as follows, but not necessarily in order of preference.

1. An over-all agricultural policy that will give stability to the various branches of that industry in all parts of the country.

2. Adequate floor prices with a proper relationship between the different products they have to sell.

3. Prices for all farm products must bear a fair relationship between them and the cost of the things the farmers need to buy.

The Address-Mr. Burton

4. The right to negotiate from time to time, through their respective boards and organizations, the adjustment of prices for their commodities so that they will at all times receive a fair share of the national income.

To meet the needs of the present and to give to the farmers that sense of security and stability which they so urgently require, I suggest the following:

(a) The encouragement by the government of an all-out production programme to help raise the nutritional standard of the Canadian people and do our full share in helping to feed the people of Britain and war-ravaged countries in Europe.

(b) A dominion marketing act to establish commodity marketing boards under producer and consumer control, with power to regulate the assembling, transporting, grading and processing of live stock products, fruit, dairy products, poultry products, et cetera.

(c) Present ceiling prices plus any subsidies at present in effect to be the floor price on all farm products for the next ten year period, unless changing conditions warrant an increase or decrease after proper negotiations by the respective boards.

(d) Abolition of the Winnipeg grain exchange; the continuation of the Canadian wheat board, and the inclusion of coarse grains under the act.

(e) Amendment to the Income War Tax Act so that the farmer, his wife and children shall not be penalized for their long hours of toil.

(f) Prevention of regional discrimination such as the recent increase in the price of petroleum products in the west.

(g) Amendments to the Prairie Farm Assistance Act in order to make it a dominionwide crop insurance act which will cover all types of agriculture.

(h) Extension of the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act to all parts of Canada, with regional branches giving special attention to soil conservation.

I should like to deal with each of these points, but I see my time is going by. A number of my colleagues will deal at greater length with the different points I have laid down. I should like to refer, however, to the last one, the extension of the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act to all parts of Canada, with regional branches giving special attention to soil conservation. In this connection I should like to quote what the president of the Canadian federation of agriculture had to say about soil conservation:

Since the soil is the basis of all food production it is the greatest national 'asset we have. The security, not only of those who till the soil, but of ail the people, depends upon how well it

is oared for, and how widely it is used. Therefore, a programme of security for agriculture in the post-war years mustj of necessity, include a long-range programme for soil conservation.

Such a programme will be given its proper place in our national economy when it is generally recognized that money spent to save the soil should not be regarded as'a subsidy to the farmer but tas a national investment for present 'and future generations.

The problems of agriculture are of such importance that no time must be lost in solving them. The standard of living in this country depends upon the tiller of the soil. While that has been true in the past, never has so much depended on a proper solution of these problems. When hunger, privation and suffering have become the lot of millions, we realize that every effort must be made to remove the handicaps which prevent the farmers from properly fulfilling the mission of their noble calling, namely, the feeding of the human race. I have no hesitation in saying that the adoption of the proposals I have just made would be a big step forward in helping the farmers to take their proper place in our national economy. Too long have the farmers of this country been discriminated against. Too long have they been exploited. As never before they are determined to see to it. that they receive a fair share of our national income, that they be allowed to take their right place in our national life.

Hon. C. D. HOWE (Minister of Reconstruction) :

Mr. Speaker, in rising to take part in this debate I wish to join with previous speakers in expressing regret at the departure of Lord Athlone and the Princess Alice and to express my appreciation of the work that they did while here. As Minister of Munitions and Supply perhaps I saw a side of their activities that others may have overlooked. They were tireless visitors to war plants. I can say that walking through a war plant is a tiresome business. I have done it occasionally, but the governor general and his gracious consort visited almost every war plant in Canada at least once. Their visits invariably resulted in an inspiration both to the management and to the workers, and had a great deal to do with the pleasant relations that were maintained in the war plants of this country. I am sure every Canadian feels a sense of loss at their departure and we all wish them good health and happiness in the future.

I should like to say a word of congratulation to the mover (Mr. Viau) and the seconder ' (Mr. Winters) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I was not in the house when their speeches were made but I have read them with great interest.

The Address-Mr. Howe

To-day I wish to speak particularly with regard to the remarks of the leader of the opposition (Mr. Bracken) to the effect that reconversion had bogged down and that the labour situation in Canada to-day is similar to that of the early 1930's. It has always been a mystery to me why members of the opposition feel that, in describing the present and future situation in this country, they must invariably picture both in a gloomy light. I have listened to speeches in this house predicting wide-spread unemployment, not only after the war, but during the war.

I have never heard anyone express the hope and expectation that after the war we would have reasonable employment conditions in this country.

The first two or three years of the war were occupied by parliamentary committees sitting continuously devising public works in great numbers which could be put into construction immediately after the war to take up the inevitable unemployment that would come at that time. In 1943 I ventured to make a prediction of my own. Speaking before the Canadian club in Toronto I predicted that this vast accumulation of public works would not be needed. I pointed out that every returned man would not be a construction man. I pointed out that the expansion that was taking place in industry would find means of absorbing war workers and the returned men without excessive resort to public works. I was accused by a very large portion of the press of Canada of being a super-optimist. I was called an optimist at first, and then I was promoted to superoptimist. I never was as optimistic as the present position would justify.

I have recently made a trip to the Pacific coast, the first time I have been there in morq than six years. I used to live in western Canada. I lived there, and practised my profession there, for some twenty-five years. I have lived in Saskatoon, Calgary, Vancouver, Regina and for many years in Port Arthur. I have seen western Canada in good times and in bad times, and I think I know what good times look like and what bad times look like in that country. But I have never seen western Canada in the state of prosperity in which it is to-day. I tried to meet in my travels a fair cross-section of each of the communities I visited, and I came away from western Canada convinced for the first time that perhaps our efforts toward reconstruction are meeting their objective.

There is a good deal of work in reconstruction that does not meet the eye. When V-E day came there was a cut-back of about thirty-five per cent in munitions production,

so that we could have a more or less gradual change-over from war to peace production in certain of our manufacturing plants. But on V-J day there was a complete cut-off of all war contracts except in the few cases where examination indicated that there would be more salvage value by completing production than in cutting it off. Before a war plant can change over to a peace-time plant, many things must happen. The surplus inventories in the plant must be moved. An adjustment must be made on the contract. There must be a cut-off and an adjustment made of the amount due the contractor and proper means found of paying the contractor. Those adjustments relate to several thousand contracts and the work involved is tremendous. I worked fairly hard during the war years, but I never worked as hard in my life as I have in the period since V-J day, and I think that is true of the staff of' my department

The termination of the contracts is handled by the contracts settlement board. It has a large staff. That staff goes into each factory, makes a rough determination of the amount due, arranges for immediate payment for a portion of it so that the contractor can have funds to start his reconversion work, and then follows that up with auditors who make the final adjustment. In the course of that adjustment the profits that have been made by the operation are studied and, if the profits seem excessive, a renegotiation is undertaken. That may seem a minor operation, but I can say to hon. members that these renegotiations to date have resulted in a recovery to the crown of some $365,000,000, of which about thirty per cent represents money that would not have been recovered through taxation in the ordinary course.

The custody of surplus materials from war plants, as well as the custody of all war materials surplus to the requirements of the armed forces, is handled by War Assets Corporation. That corporation is responsible for movement of materials out of the plants, for holding custody of government-owned machinery and equipment, and for disposing of that equipment in a way that will make the maximum contribution to the cause of reconversion. About 4,000 men are now engaged in the custody of equipment, in moving equipment out of plants and arranging for storage, and in guarding the equipment pending its sale. The total staff of War Assets Corporation, including the custodian branch, now exceeds 5,000 men and women. That staff has been built up within a very short time. The task of War Assets Corporation really began shortly before V-J day and is growing in size as each day passes. To date

The Address-Mr. Howe

Mr. LOCKHART:

Would the minister

permit a question? I do not like to interrupt him.