Mr. GORDON GRAYDON (Peel):

I was not here yesterday, but I understood that this was not on the agenda for to-day's proceedings.

Hon. IAN A. MACKENZIE (Minister of Veterans Affairs): There is no such thing as an agenda.

Mr. GRAYDON:

Perhaps the minister

wants to be technical.

Mr. MACKENZIE:

"Order paper".

Mr. GRAYDON:

He can be so if he desires, but I was using a term which I thought conveyed my idea, namely that I understood the order of business for to-day did not include the moving of this particular motion. I believe there are one or two hon. members who desire to say something in connection with it. If it is going on to-day I want to ask the- minister a question; but perhaps the government would be prepared to let it stand over until to-morrow.

Mr. McCANN:

May I point out that on April 16 the motion to set up the committee was passed, and this motion to-day has to do entirely with the personnel of the committee. Outside of the personnel, therefore, any other discussion, I submit, would not be in order. There was a debate on April 16 when the original motion was passed. The motion was:

That a select committee, the members thereof to be later named, be appointed on radio broadcasting to consider the annual report of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation and to review the policies and aims of the corporation and its regulations, revenues, expenditures and development, with power to examine and inquire into the matters and things herein referred to and to report from time to time their observations and opinions thereon, and to send for persons, papers and records.

That motion was discussed and carried, and at this time we are only naming the personnel; so any discussion on this motion would have to do entirely with the members who will constitute the committee.

Mr. MACKENZIE:

Question.

Mr. SMITH (Calgary West):

As one who is anxious to say something on this motion, speaking to the point of order raised by the minister, Mr. Speaker, may I submit, with respect, that a resolution of this nature is debatable, and that it should in no sense be confined to the personnel of the committee. What I had intended to say had to do not so much with what the committee might do but with the matter of government policy with respect to the Canadian Broadcasting

Radio Broadcasting-Special Committee

Corporation. I would like a ruling, sir, as to whether or not I am in order in making such a speech on this motion.

Mr. HANSELL:

On the point of order which has been raised, I think the minister will agree that in, years gone by we have had an open discussion on matters pertaining to these committees, even when the personnel of the committee has been included in the motion; otherwise there is nothing we can discuss. I could not very well discuss the colour of the hair or the colour of the eyes of these men. The matter for discussion is with respect to the policy of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. I believe the point of order made by the hon. member for Peel (Mr. Graydon) is well taken, because last night when we concluded our business the leader of the house told us what we should go on with to-day, and he did not include in his remarks that we would take up this motion; consequently we expected that the minister would ask that it stand. I submit, Mr. Speaker, that this looks too much as though the resolution, if this order is proceeded with, is being slipped through. I am not saying it is; perhaps we should have been a little more alert, but it would not hurt for the matter to stand for another day.

May I say a word on the point of order? I think there are quite a few members who wish to say something about the policy of the broadcasting corporation. I have a matter which I should like to discuss. May I point out to Your [DOT] Honour that when we allowed the motion to go through, on April 16, it was the day before the house was adjourning for Easter; there was a great deal of business, and I know I felt, as probably some other hon. members did, that it was desirable to clean up the business which we were then discussing and that another opportunity would arise. At any rate I did not at that time feel like taking up the time of the house. But it has been usual, before sending the matter to the committee, to give members an opportunity to deal with some of the business which might be discussed before the committee. While the minister is perhaps technically right, I think that latitude in the past has been allowed.

Mr. McCANN:

Personally I have no objection, Mr. Speaker, to the fullest discussion if you declare that it is in order.

Mr. MACKENZIE:

I think this can be done only by the unanimous consent of the house. I have no objection, either. But some hon. gentleman mentioned that this was not referred to last night on the agenda. It 63260-951

has never been the custom to refer to a government notice of motion the evening before; and the house had corftplete opportunity on April 16 to debate the whole principle in regard to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. However, sir, if there is a general desire now to debate this motion I am sure that my colleague has no objection, and probably the house itself has no objection. But strictly speaking we passed on the principle of the appointment of the committee on April 16, and this refers only to the personnel of the committee.

Mr. STIRLING:

On the point of order, Mr. Speaker, may I draw attention to the fact that on a previous night the Minister of Veterans Affairs (Mr. Mackenzie), who was leading the house, did indicate that a government motion would be proceeded with,

Mr. MACKENZIE:

That was-

Mr. STIRLING:

Excuse me, whereas last evening the wording he used was:

To-morrow we shall take up Bill No. 7 at the commencement of the proceedings.

Mr. SPEAKER:

There is no doubt that this motion is debatable under standing order 38, subparagraph (j):

The following motions are debatable:

(j) for the appointment of a committee,

The motion, now before the house reads in part:

That the committee appointed on 16th April last to consider the annual report of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation and to review the policies of the corporation shall consist of the following members:

The principle of the establishment of a committee was accepted by the house on Tuesday, April 16, 1946. According to Votes and Proceedings of that date:

On motion of Mr. McCann, it was resolved,- That a select committee-thd members thereof to be later named, be appointed on radio broadcasting to consider the annual report of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation and to review the policies and aims of the corporation and its regulations, revenues, expenditures and development, with power to examine-

Et cetera. The question before the house is not the principle of appointing a committee to do certain things as directed; the motion concerns the personnel of the committee. The Chair could not permit a debate on the principle of the appointment of a committee, that question having been decided by the house on April 16. I must therefore ask the house whether it is ready for the question.

Mr. BRACKEN:

Before you put the motion, Mr. Speaker, I should like to make one observation. The first resolution was put

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before the house on the day before we adjourned for the Easter recess. The sum total of the discussion that took place covers no more than one and a half columns of Hansard, and only two members, apart from the Minister of National Revenue, referred to the matter. I would respectfully suggest that under the circumstances debate ought not to be circumscribed in the manner you indicate. Of course we recognize the authority of the Speaker, and if your ruling, sir, is as you have stated, we shall of necessity accept it. I would repeat, however, that there has been no substantial debate on the motion that was submitted to the house on April 16.

Mr. SPEAKER:

The leader of the opposition no doubt realizes that the Speaker cannot take cognizance of any discussion there may have been between himself and the leader of the house. The duty of the Speaker is to follow the rules of the house. There is therefore but one course open to me, and that is ' to put the motion to the house, unless there is unanimous consent that the principle be debated with respect to the appointment of the committee itself. Is it the pleasure of the house to give unanimous consent?

No.

Mr. ROSS (St. Paul's):

Mr. Speaker, may I call attention to the fact that in the past it has always been the practice to include (he personnel of the committee in the motion authorizing its appointment. This is an extra-ordinarjr proceeding.

Mr. SPEAKER:

The motion which I read to the house is simply that certain hon. members therein named shall constitute the committee already appointed, and no debate is permissible on the principle of the appointment of the committee. As I have already stated, that principle was accepted on Tuesday, April 16. Unless there is now unanimous consent for discussion of the principle of appointing the committee, I must put the motion.