May 14, 1946

PC

George Black

Progressive Conservative

Mr. BLACK (Yukon):

No, not highgrading.

Topic:   PLACER MINING
Subtopic:   NON-FORFEITURE OF CLAIMS OF SERVICE PERSONNEL-SMUGGLING
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PC

Arthur Leroy Smith

Progressive Conservative

Mr. SMITH (Calgary West):

With great respect to the hon. member for Yukon may I say that this does not deal with theft; rather it is a matter of failing to pay royalties. I am accepting the minister's word for that, because that is what he said only a minute ago. How can it be said a person is about to remove gold? If that is all, how can a [DOT] search help? If a man has gold in his pocket or his pouch-and perhaps the hon. member for Yukon is thinking of that night on the marge of lake Labarge they cremated Sam McGee-

Topic:   PLACER MINING
Subtopic:   NON-FORFEITURE OF CLAIMS OF SERVICE PERSONNEL-SMUGGLING
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PC

George Black

Progressive Conservative

Mr. BLACK (Yukon):

That is just rubbish.

Topic:   PLACER MINING
Subtopic:   NON-FORFEITURE OF CLAIMS OF SERVICE PERSONNEL-SMUGGLING
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PC

Arthur Leroy Smith

Progressive Conservative

Mr. SMITH (Calgary West):

But delightful rubbish, by the way.

Topic:   PLACER MINING
Subtopic:   NON-FORFEITURE OF CLAIMS OF SERVICE PERSONNEL-SMUGGLING
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PC

George Black

Progressive Conservative

Mr. BLACK (Yukon):

And you do not entertain the committee with it, one bit.

Topic:   PLACER MINING
Subtopic:   NON-FORFEITURE OF CLAIMS OF SERVICE PERSONNEL-SMUGGLING
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PC

Arthur Leroy Smith

Progressive Conservative

Mr. SMITH (Calgary West):

It would assist an officer in finding someone who is about to commit an offence.

Topic:   PLACER MINING
Subtopic:   NON-FORFEITURE OF CLAIMS OF SERVICE PERSONNEL-SMUGGLING
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PC

George Black

Progressive Conservative

Mr. BLACK (Y'ukon):

With all due respect,

I cannot see why members should be so filled with fear that some crook is going to be inconvenienced-and that is all it means. If a person has not stolen gold, or has not gold

Placer Mining

on his body or on his person, he will not be inconvenienced by the officers. One hon. member mentioned that when one crosses the boundary the customs officers search the baggage. I have seen them search their persons. The suggestion of the hon. member for Calgary West would make it even more drastic than it is now. I am all for subsection 4 as it is.

Topic:   PLACER MINING
Subtopic:   NON-FORFEITURE OF CLAIMS OF SERVICE PERSONNEL-SMUGGLING
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PC

Douglas Scott Harkness

Progressive Conservative

Mr. HARKNESS:

I suggest to the minister that the words "or is about to commit" be deleted. The hon. member for Yukon has referred to the searching of baggage by customs officers, but I would point out that that is a different matter altogether. They lay open the bags and take a cursory look, but that is a different matter altogether from permitting police officers to have power to search one's person or belongings, simply because there has been a suspicion that someone may be going to commit an offence. It is bad enough to give power to a police officer to make a search when he has good reason to suspect that an offence has been committed. This section will allow such officers to search anyone at any time in Yukon.

Topic:   PLACER MINING
Subtopic:   NON-FORFEITURE OF CLAIMS OF SERVICE PERSONNEL-SMUGGLING
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LIB

James Allison Glen (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. GLEN:

The words in the section are:

Where any peace officer has reason to suspect that any person has committed or is about to commit an offence.

He does not commit the offence until he is actually outside the territory and evading the payment of royalty. If we eliminate from the section the words "or is about to commit" we take the teeth from it. What would happen would be that a peace officer would know about a man who is about to commit an offence, namely, of his intention to leave the territory in a hurry, by aeroplane, train or team-

Topic:   PLACER MINING
Subtopic:   NON-FORFEITURE OF CLAIMS OF SERVICE PERSONNEL-SMUGGLING
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PC

John Ritchie MacNicol

Progressive Conservative

Mr. MacNICOL:

Or boat.

Topic:   PLACER MINING
Subtopic:   NON-FORFEITURE OF CLAIMS OF SERVICE PERSONNEL-SMUGGLING
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LIB

James Allison Glen (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. GLEN:

Unless the man is searched at that time, the man will have left the territory; the offence will have been committed and the officer left in a position where he could do nothing. If those words were taken out the section would not be effective.

Amendment (Mr. Mackenzie) agreed to.

Section as amended agreed to.

Bill reported.

Topic:   PLACER MINING
Subtopic:   NON-FORFEITURE OF CLAIMS OF SERVICE PERSONNEL-SMUGGLING
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NATIONAL PARKS

ADJUSTMENT OF BOUNDARIES IN RESPECT OF CERTAIN SMALL AREAS


Hon. J. A. GLEN (Minister of Mines and Resources) moved the second reading of bill No. 63, respecting the boundaries of certain national parks. He said: Mr. Speaker, as this bill, if enacted, will divest the crown of certain areas of land in certain national parks, title to which is at present in the crown. The governor general has been informed in respect thereto, and has given his consent to consideration of the bill.


PC

Gordon Graydon

Progressive Conservative

Mr. GORDON GRAYDON (Peel):

Should that not have been done before? Is this the proper time to indicate the assent of the crown to this legislation?

Topic:   NATIONAL PARKS
Subtopic:   ADJUSTMENT OF BOUNDARIES IN RESPECT OF CERTAIN SMALL AREAS
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LIB

James Allison Glen (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. GLEN:

Yes, and I am informed that it is. This is the time that that should be done, namely before the question is put on second reading.

Topic:   NATIONAL PARKS
Subtopic:   ADJUSTMENT OF BOUNDARIES IN RESPECT OF CERTAIN SMALL AREAS
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PC

Gordon Graydon

Progressive Conservative

Mr. GRAYDON:

With great deference to the minister I should think it is a strange procedure if the parliament of Canada can get as far as second reading before obtaining the consent of the governor general, and acquainting the house with that fact. I think something must be wrong, somewhere. It is certainly new to me; I never heard of this procedure before.

Topic:   NATIONAL PARKS
Subtopic:   ADJUSTMENT OF BOUNDARIES IN RESPECT OF CERTAIN SMALL AREAS
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LIB

James Allison Glen (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. GLEN:

I think the hon. member for Peel has in mind a resolution involving a payment of money, in respect of which it should be indicated that His Excellency the Governor General has given consent. But that is not this case. This is not dealing with a question of money but divesting the crown of parts of areas in the parks, and I am instructed by the law officers that that statement should be made before the motion is put.

Topic:   NATIONAL PARKS
Subtopic:   ADJUSTMENT OF BOUNDARIES IN RESPECT OF CERTAIN SMALL AREAS
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Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and the house went into committee thereon, Mr. Golding in the chair. On section 1-Short title.


LIB

James Allison Glen (Minister of Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. GLEN:

I should explain to the committee that although Banff park is described by metes and bounds in the National Parks Act, the boundaries of Banff park were not surveyed until 1940 when on instructions from the surveyor general a survey was made and boundary posts set up. Following the survey, an official map of the park was prepared.

This map was approved and signed on behalf of the Dominion of Canada by the Hon. T. A. Crerar, Minister of Mines and Resources, under authority of an order of His Excellency the Governor in Council and on behalf of the province of Alberta by the Hon. N. E. Tanner, Minister of Lands and Mines. An original signed copy of the said map was filed in the land titles office for the South Alberta land registration district of Calgary on the 18th April, 1941.

National Parks

Two small parcels of land not formerly in the park are included within the boundaries of the park, as set out in schedule A. One parcel containing approximately 210 acres was acquired as a site for the eastern gateway. The other parcel comprising one-sixth square mile due to an adjustment of the boundary made on the survey of the park is added with the approval of the province. Total area added is approximately one-half square mile.

The total area of the park as described in schedule A is 2,585 square miles more or less.

Then as to Kootenay Park, the original agreement known as the Banff-Windermere road agreement which was approved by the dominion government by orders in council dated the 14th and 20th March, 1919, and ratified by an Act of the provincial legislature known as the Banff-Windermere Road Agreement Ratification Act, being chapter 5, British Columbia statutes, 1919, contained the following provision:

(4) The said province will grant to the dominion government a strip of land along the said Banff-Windermere road as laid out and completed to an approximate width of five (5) miles on each side thereof; provided always that, as far as possible, the crests of the mountains shall constitute the outside boundaries of the said area.

Kootenay park as established by order in council, P.C. 827, in 1920 included the area granted by the province of British Columbia.

A small part of the park unsuitable for park purposes was removed from the park area by order in council, P.C. 209, of February 2, 1922, following an arrangement with the province.

An official survey of and map showing the boundaries of Kootenay park were made under instructions from the surveyor general.

Upon completion of the survey, it was found that the park area varied considerably from the area mentioned in the original agreement, but the principle set out in the proviso of section 4 of that agreement was maintained in that the survey fixed the boundaries of the park along the crest of the mountains.

The provincial government of British Columbia, upon the completion of the survey and map, implemented the above-mentioned statute, chapter 5, British Columbia statutes, 1919, by passing order in council No. 810 of August 8, 1928, approving of the survey and the boundaries fixed by the survey. The boundaries of Kootenay park, as surveyed, are set out in schedule A to the bill.

The area of the park when established in 1920 was estimated at 587 square miles. Approximately seven square miles were removed from the park in 1922. Upon completion of the survey, the area of the park was established as 543 square miles, more or less.

Next is Riding Mountain park. The department acquired a number of small areas comprising in all slightly less than two sections with some pieces of roadway as an addition to the Riding Mountain park. These areas lie immediately south of the townsite of Wasagaming, the headquarters of the park. They were specially required to round out the park in this important section. The area being added consists of 962.3 acres.

This is similar to what was done in connection with Banff park. They had to add a portion of land at the south gateway in order to protect the entrance and prevent the building of hotels and the erection of other buildings at the gateway of the park.

The two small areas being withdrawn from the park were former sites of the forest officer's headquarters when the park area was a forest reserve. These two areas are outside the .main park area.

Upon the establishment of the park a more intensive administration of the area was organized under which it was found advisable to locate the park wardens inside the park. The improvements upon these two small areas have been disposed of and the said areas are not now being used as they are in the centre of a farming district. It is considered they should be available for agricultural purposes. The total area of the two parcels being withdrawn is 320 acres.

The total area of the park is approximately 1,148 square miles.

Then Point Pelee park. The areas being added to Point Pelee park comprise:

(a) Part of a number of squatters' holdings which the department purchased from the estate of Joseph W. Post, together with some adjoining lands, the title to which was in the crown in the right of the dominion but which were not included in the park;

(b) Two lots in a subdivision of lot one of the squatters' holdings which the department acquired at a tax sale;

(c) With the formal consent of the local municipality. the department expropriated the roads inside the park boundaries.

The total area of the parcels being added to the park consists of 255-03 acres. The total area of the park is 3,869 acres, including the additions.

I come next to Georgian bay islands parks. Flowerpot island, which it is desired to include in the Georgian bay islands park, is located at the head of the Bruce peninsula.

The island was surrendered by the Chippewa Indians on the 5th day of June, 1856, and was acquired for park purposes from the Department of Indian Affairs on the 6th December, 1930.

National Parks

With the addition of Flowerpot island, Georgian bay islands parks will consist of Beausoleil island (2,712 acres), Flowerpot island (475 acres) and some 28 smaller islands (251 acres), a total area of approximately 3,438 acres.

Mr. MaoNICOL: Have squatters any rights there now?

Topic:   NATIONAL PARKS
Subtopic:   ADJUSTMENT OF BOUNDARIES IN RESPECT OF CERTAIN SMALL AREAS
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May 14, 1946