July 9, 1946

LIB

Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and referred to the committee on railways, canals and telegraph lines.


THE BUDGET

DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE


The house resumed consideration of the motion of Right Hon. J. L. Ilsley (Minister of Finance) that Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair for the house to go into committee of ways and means, and on the proposed amendment thereto of Mr. Macdonnell (Muskoka-Ontario), and on the amendment to the amendment of Mr. Maclnnis.


PC

John Ritchie MacNicol

Progressive Conservative

Mr. J. R. MacNICOL (Davenport):

Notwithstanding the fact that the mining industry is greatly exercised and chagrined over the actions of the government during the last ten days, and notwithstanding the fact that many assert that production in the mining industry will be greatly reduced, I rise to-night to advocate a vigorous expansion in the whole mining industry along the line of greater production. If we can bring this about I believe two things will follow. First, there will be a widening of the business base, with the result that there will be a further broadening of tax-

The Budget-Mr. MacNicol

ation and, to that extent, a general lowering of taxes upon the public generally. Second, such an expansion in production will bring about a great demand for labour, as has been the case in the past and as happened toward the end of the great depression. So I have no hesitation whatever in advocating that in the whole mining industry production be vigorously accelerated.

To-night I am going to try to present one view of expansion, and shall deal with one mineral. Time, of course, would not permit me to deal with many, and I believe my time will be exhausted when I have dealt with one.

I am not going to choose the precious metals to talk about; the hon. member for York West (Mr. Adamson) dealt with that subject this afternoon. I am going to deal with a humble metal, plain, ordinary red iron ore. I am convinced that if we can bring about a great expansion in the production of iron ore, in the last half of this century Canada will have perhaps the same opportunity to expand its whole business fabric that our cousins to the south had in the last half of the last century.

Many hon. members have visited Toronto lately, and that is only one city where what I am going to speak about may be noticed. Those who have been there have seen another skyscraper, the new Bank of Montreal building, going up on the northwest corner of King and Bay streets. That provides a great object lesson as to the results coming from the production of iron ore. I am sorry to say that we import a great deal of steel; and while our iron and steel industry has given a great deal of employment we do not begin to produce in this country anything like the iron ore we should produce, nor do we take care of even a small part of our own demand for steel. If one drives outside and around the city of Toronto, one may see-I do not know if it is the case to-day, because I have not been driving very much lately-signboards with beautiful pictorial illustrations of what results from the production of iron ore and steel. One may see beautifully portrayed on these signboards steel ships, steel frames of ships, steel bridges and steel construction work of every order. Beneath these pictures one may read a long line of printing stating that the contractors of Canada have had on hand for this post-war period orders for 8300,000,000 worth of structural steel consisting of perpendiculars, horizontals, angles, bars, shapes and other steel products. That 8300,000,000 worth of structural steel represents $250,000,000 worth of labour; that is the proportion. In addition, anyone who knows anything at all about steel and construction knows that in orders for $300,000,000 worth of structural steel there are

coincident or correlated orders for other steel equipment, such as that required for the expansion of factories; the dump cars; the rails; the expanded steel metal and steel doors; the pipes for conveying steam; the vacuum plants, and all the other works that enter into the buildings of steel construction. Here we have another $300,000,000 worth. In other words, the statement on those signboards means that there are in sight orders for not less than 8600.000,000 worth of steel, which means $500,000,000 worth of labour.

That is big business. That is the kind of business Canada should go after. That is the kind of business we must make at least some effort to develop in this country from our own iron ore, in our own steel mills. There is ample opportunity. Anyone who looks at the statistics will see that during the four years prior to the outbreak of the last war Canada imported $600,000,000 worth of iron and iron products of which something between $15,000,000 and $25,000,000 represented raw iron ore imported into this country. If we ever had an opportunity, in my opinion we have it now, in the first place to expand our own iron ore production and in the second place to expand our own steel mills and mills for the smelting of iron ore. I believe it was the late Thomas Carlyle who wisely said that the nation which controls iron controls gold. That puts gold in a secondary position to iron; and if there is one nation in the world that demonstrates the truth of that statement it is the United States.

I may say that I have visited many of the great steel mills in the United States and many of the iron ore deposits in both the United States and Canada. About the middle of the last century two men, Henry Bessemer in England and William Kelly in the United States, though several thousand miles apart, at almost the same time discovered what is now known as the Bessemer steel process which revolutionized the steel business of the world. Very shortly after that discovery the Marquette iron ore range in northern Michigan was discovered. Later on, the great VermilioD iron ore range in Minnesota was located; still later, the incomparable Mesabi iron ore range, also in northern Minnesota, was discovered; and the United States went ahead to become, as it is to-day, the greatest producer of iron and its products in the world. To-day the steel industry in that country, with its thousand or perhaps two thousand puddling plants, steel plants, rolling mills and so on, is the greatest employer of labour in that great nation and the greatest contributor to ihe national wealth of that country.

The Budget-Mr. MacNicol

That is something for us to shoot at in this second half of the twentieth century we are now approaching. That is a target for Canada to aim at, if we have the iron ore. I believe we have large deposits of iron ore. If time permitted I should like to give a history of the development of the iron and steel industry in Canada from those far-off days when in your own beautiful province, Mr. Speaker, along both sides of that great river which flows into the St. Lawrence at the fine city of Three Rivers, Canada's iron ore business commenced. That is one thing your fair province can take credit for, that therein the iron and steel industry of Canada was begun. The iron and steel industry of Canada commenced there, and it continued for quite a number of years until finally the resources ran out. In my own province of Ontario-I could also speak of the other provinces such as Nova Scotia where they started to smelt iron ore in the eighteenth century-on a beautiful little creek called Potter's creek in the county of Norfolk iron ore was melted. Evidence of it still remains. It was the commencement of a real iron ore industry in Canada. It was not the first, as iron ore had been found about 1800 in the county in which my people settled in 1820, the county of Lanark and in Leeds, but neither deposit was of much importance. For some fifty years they smelted bog iron on Potter's creek, the same type of iron as the ore discovered in Quebec along the St. Maurice river. It is a far cry from the time of Louis XV and the deposit of iron ore which was discovered on the west side of the St. Maurice river to the present day. In all these years Canada has been trying to do something with its own iron ore, but nothing of any magnitude was done until we came to the first great war.

During the first great war a rich deposit of iron ore was found in northern Ontario in the Michipicoten area, 175 miles northwest and also directly north of the fine city of Sault Ste. Mane. At that time Mr. F. H. Clemie was a power in that part of Canada. He was the founder of the steel mills which are to be found at the'present time at Sault Ste. Marie. He was the power that brought about the development of the Michipicoten iron ore magnetite ore. It was then called Helen mountain and it contained approximately four million tons of iron ore. That ore was put to great use during the first great war until the ore became exhausted. I am told that at present they are anticipating finding more high-grade ore north of Helen mountain. Close to that is a great deposit of low-grade ore, at New Helen mountain. I spent con-

siderable time in surveying that area. I believe the mountain is about two thousand and some odd feet high. I thought it was about ten thousand feet high when I reached the top. It was much easier coming down than going up. At the present time they are taking out, as the hon. member for Algoma West (Mr. Nixon) will agree, about 750,000 tons of ore per annum. When that low-grade ore is sintered or roasted and smelted it emerges as pigiron. From those 750,000 tons of iron ore last year they received about

270,000 tons of first-class pigiron. Of course the amount is small but it can be developed. Later, I shall speak about the development of low-grade iron ore deposits.

Within the last few years, in fact during the war just closed, what is developing into a large deposit of exceptionally high-grade haematite ore, a sample of which I have in my hand, was discovered in the Atikokan area, to which I shall refer at greater length in a few moments. I wish to revert to what is going on in the United States, to build a platform, if I can, as a proposal for the development of a vast iron ore and steel industry in Canada. During the war just closed the demand for iron ore reached colossal proportions in the United States. The tonnages reached astronomical figures and, according to great engineers who have knowledge of the subject, the United States is experiencing a great contraction in its iron ore deposits. A recent issue of the Toronto Globe and Mail, I believe the October 1, 1945 issue, said that during the five years of war, in the United States 470 million tons of high-grade Mesabi and Vermilion ores were shipped to blast furnaces in Chicago, Toledo and Cleveland and other points. Cleveland has great smelting plants. To these plants they brought down 470 million tons of high-grade ore, to such an extent that the ablest of the United States engineers and geologists have become alarmed. They are alarmed, first, because, if all their high-grade ore became exhausted, what would they do in the event of another great war breaking out? I am told by those who should know that the Mesabi ore has been reduced to much less than a billion tons in sight. That is not very much from a mine which heretofore was considered inexhaustible. If their iron ore is reduced to that extent it is Canada's chance. This is Canada's chance. One of the United States great engineers and geologists, Mr. W. R. Van Slyke of Minnesota, who is thoroughly conversant with everything pertaining to the Mesabi and Vermilion iron ore ranges, the greatest in the United States, wrote the war production board of Washington last

The Budget-Mr. MacNicol

summer warning them to do two things: first, to withdraw from possible extraction of ore in that area four hundred to five hundred million tons; that is, take it out of circulation, prevent it from being used. In his letter he recommended that because of the necessity of having high-grade ore in vast quantity if and when the United States should ever again require it for defence. Second, he recommended that their own vast low-grade ores be put to work. He suggested that the United States government-and I am going to suggest the same thing to this government later- bring the best engineers, geologists and scientists together to develop the finest technique for processing low-grade ores, so that they would be able to retain their present great Mesabi and Vermilion iron ore ranges, or at least a portion of them.

What I have given has been facts. Canada has a chance because here we, too, have splendid low-grade iron ore deposits. We have the vast low-grade iron ore deposits in Algoma to which I referred a moment ago. We have vast low-grade iron ore deposits on Taxada island and on the island of Vancouver. Out there they also have water power, hydro power. If they had high-grade iron ore to mix with the low-grade ore, along with the hydro power, it would mean the erection of a steel industry in British Columbia, to which I shall refer later on.

That brings me to the next point. Where is the high-grade ore in Ontario? At this point I wish to say that I personally am not interested in the remotest possible way in any mine or in any ore. I speak from a world of experience in the study of iron and steel. I speak as a Canadian with a heart filled full of hope that the time will come when Canada, particularly in this century, will take her place in the sun by being a great producer of both iron ore and steel.

My hon. friend whom I see across the aisle, the hon. member for Fort William (Mr. Mclvor), knows that what I am saying is true. I spent a lot of time at Steep Rock in the Atikokan area. I was there during the wet season. When one goes into an iron mine he must be prepared to get not only his clothes but his boots fairly well marked up. However, that made no difference. When I go out on a survey I want to see the last part of it; I want to see all there is about it. I made a thorough survey while at Steep Rock.

I had the good fortune while there to meet representatives of the R.F.C. in Washington and other engineers. They were capable, brilliant men and I had the good fortune to be able to discuss with them the value of this ore and its probable tonnage. I am convinced that

there is a large tonnage there, not because of anything that I could see but for three principal reasons. First, I do not believe the United States government would have allowed the R.F.C. to invest $5,000,000 in that iron ore mine without sending engineers there, which they did, to make a thorough investigation as to the possible and probable tonnage. They are too clever for that. Their men must have reported back that the evidence obtained from the diamond drill cores, which are still there to be seen by anyone who cares to go there, was such that it would warrant the R.F.C. lending $5,000,000 in Canada to proceed with the production of ore in the Atikokan area. That is pretty strong evidence.

But there are two more pieces of strong evidence. The second is the fact that the Ont>-ario government, through the hydro electric power commission, which commission has a number of eminent and brilliant engineers, put up $2,500,000 in order to provide more electric power at Alexandra falls on the Nipigon river and wire it for a distance of 150 miles west to the Atikokan area. That is another reason why I am convinced that there must be a lot of ore there.

Mr. Speaker, I can hardly hear myself speak and I am talking rather loudly. I am really trying to present something to this house. If hon. members are interested at all in the advance of their own country; if they are at all interested in what will put this country ahead and increase our production of iron ore and steel, as has been demonstrated; in the United States, I hope they will listen and take an interest in what I am saying. Perhaps they will become more interested in this and help to bring about further development.

I should like to digress for a moment and refer to what two other great countries are doing along the lines of what I am urging should be done in this country. I am going to take a trip to India to see the great works of the Tata iron and steel company at Jamshe-pur. That is undoubtedly one of the greatest iron and steel producing plants in Asia. It has turned out a lot of iron and steel and has captured for that part of the world much of the iron and steel business. During the late war it did a wonderful job in producing iron and steel.

Then our friends the Russians are doing likewise. They are developing a tremendous iron and steel industry. Unless we Canadians wake up and develop our own iron and steel industry in a big way we may be buying our requirements from India or Russia or elsewhere when we should be producing them at home.

The Budget-Mr. MacNicol

I come back now to where I left off. In the Atikokan area there is what is known as Steep Rock lake. This lake consists of three parallel arms. If I hold up my first three fingers, finger No. 1 would represent the east arm; the middle finger would represent the centre arm and the third finger would represent the west arm. This lake is connected to a river which flows into and out of a lake lying immediately north of the east arm called Marmion lake. This latter lake is two miles north.

Steep Rock lake is 1,262 feet above sea level, while Marmion lake is 1,363 feet above sea level, or 101 feet higher. There was a power plant situated on the river between the two lakes, but the hydro had to wipe that out in order to prevent the water from flowing into Steep Rock lake. They dammed off the lower end of Marmion lake, and they cut a canal west from Marmion lake to a small lake called Raft lake and then into Finlayson lake, which is directly north of the west arm of Steep Rock lake. Then, by a brilliant piece of engineering they lowered the level of Finlayson lake from 1,398 feet to less than 1,363 feet, so that the water would flow out of Marmion lake through Raft lake into Finlayson lake. Then they cut a canal from Finlayson lake into the west arm of Steep Rock lake. Then they dammed off the centre arm of Steep Rock lake, from the east and west arms.

It is in the centre arm of the lake that two ore beds are found. As I say, they dammed off this arm and pumped it dry. It would be worth any hon. member's time to read of the engineering problems that our Canadian engineers overcame in draining out a lake that had a river flowing into it at the average rate of over 1,000 cubic feet per second. I take my hat off to the Canadian engineers who did that. They dried out the bottom of the centre lake.

In the centre arm of Steep Rock lake are two fine beds of iron ore. The one at the south end, which is within three .miles of Atikokan station on one of our great main lines of railway, is called B ore bed. I have here a piece of ore from B ore bed, at the north end of what is called A ore bed. When the overburden is taken off over both these ore beds the ore can be taken out by steam sho\ el. 1 he week I was there they were taking out ore from B ore bed by steam shovel at the rate of five to six thousand tons a day and taking it out to Atikokan by rail from where it was shipped to the United States.

1 his is fine business. There were a lot of men working there, and anything we can do to increase the amount of tonnage to be taken out of that lake is all to the good for Canada. When I was there the engineers told me that they can take by steam shovel, open pit [Mr. MieNirol.l

method 15,000,000 tons or more of ore out of B ore bed at the south end of the centre arm by steam shovel, and another 15,000,000 or more tons from A ore bed at the north end of the centre arm. Better still, they tell me that as far as the drills went they found the same grade of ore which can be taken out later by regular mining methods.

I believe that Canada has something wonderful in that high-grade Steep Rock ore. Canada has something that -will help to push this country along. One pound of gold at the rate of about $35 an ounce is worth about $560, but a pound of steel watchsprings is worth $1,600. In other words, a pound of steel made into watchsprings is worth more than three times as much as a pound of gold. In this ore this country has a treasury that will permit us to advance to heights never dreamed of before.

We have in this country many iron and steel mills. I see my good friend, the hon. member for Hamilton East (Mr. Ross), looking at me. He has two great steel mills in his riding, Dominion Foundries and Steel, and Steel Company of Canada. I shall speak of that a little later, of the expansion that is possible there. We have in Algoma a vast quantity of low-grade iron ore. We have, I am told, upwards of a billion tons high grade iron ore in the three ore bodies, A, B and C, at Atikokan. I suggest that we make every effort to develop these iron ore bodies. We should have steel plants in Winnipeg and in Vancouver. We have them in Hamilton. We should have them in Ojibway, where two or three unused blast furnaces have stood for I do not know how many years, but ever since my hon. friend (Mr. Croll) was mayor of that city. I want to see those blast furnaces put to work. We should have a blast furnace in Toronto. I do not see why we should not have these developments because this iron ore body lies along the great railway highway, the Canadian National Railways, and it is only 140 miles from the St. Lawrence waterway at Port Arthur. There is no reason why, if we developed these mines to the extent they should be developed, we should not be shipping high-grade ore both east and west, from Fort William and Port Arthur. I am sure the hon. member for that district would like to see a mill there, and that will come some day. Some day you will have a big smelting plant in Port Arthur and Fort William and you will be shipping your product east.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Thomas Reid

Liberal

Mr. REID:

Is it haematite ore?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PC

John Ritchie MacNicol

Progressive Conservative

Mr. MacNICOL:

This is haematite. The red proves that, to start with. I said at the beginning, red iron ore. Magnatite is not red

The Budget-Mr. MacNicol

in the same manner. They are both No. 1, and I wish we had inexhaustible quantities of both. Nothing can hold this country back if they are developed.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. GILLIS:

How? By private enterprise?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PC

John Ritchie MacNicol

Progressive Conservative

Mr. MacNICOL:

I was a private enterprise man myself and I like to hear my hon. friend talk about private enterprise. If there is one thing that I am proud of it is that I have assisted in giving thousands of men jobs, and I like to talk to a man who has given men jobs.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. GILLIS:

Is the hon. member suggesting that private enterprise develop these deposits?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PC

John Ritchie MacNicol

Progressive Conservative

Mr. MacNICOL:

The iron ore deposits are now being developed by a very fine company. I am glad that my hon. friend mentioned that. The men who discovered this iron ore are wonderful men, Jules Cross of Port Arthur and the late Joseph Errington. For years they travelled up and down that part of the country with no possible hope at that time of getting any reward. But finally, as a result of the persistence of these men, this ore body was discovered and developed. It never would have been discovered but for their persistence and their stick-to-itiveness. The ore was developed by a company which these men promoted, along with Major General Hogarth. I give them credit for promoting that company. The United States government and the Ontario Hydro also put money into its development, as well as this government. I did not mention that before and I am glad to mention it now. I would not suggest for a moment that this government does not also deserve credit, because it put in about $2,500,000 through the Canadian National Railways to build a line from Atikokan to Steep Rock, three miles in length, and strengthening the whole line from Atikokan to Port Arthur, and building a trestle bridge half a mile long and dock at Port Arthur capable of loading 2,000,000 tons of ore in ships that come alongside the dock in the shipping season of 200 days. I give credit to all those who helped to bring about this development. Anyone who helps to develop this country deserves credit.

I see that my time is passing, Mr. Speaker, and I want to make some recommendations as to what might be done. I am not going to ask the government to put up money because this is a time of economy. But they can help by showing their willingness to assist in other ways. I would first recommend that the Minister of Finance consider every possible way of relieving taxation on mining, and particularly on any new mine like this. This is a 63260-208

new mine. It took years to develop it. Last year they shipped about 750,000 tons and this year they expect to ship about 1,000,000 or

1,500,000 tons. It is exceptionally high-grade ore. It contains only about -020 of phosphorous, only -021 of sulphur and 2-86 of silica. The iron ore itself is of very high grade, containing from 60 to 61i per cent of pure iron. So much is that so that the purchasers in the United States can put the iron ore straight into the smelters. It has also other features. It is full of vuges or interstices, so that when it goes into the smelters it rapidly disintegrates, and that is important, as anyone knows who knows anything about melting iron. It is of such high grade that it receives a premium on the market in the United States. That is a wonderful thing for Canada.

My first suggestion was that every possible tax-be taken off primary mines.

Next, I suggest that freight rates should be equalized from AtikoTran to Port Arthur to compare with the rates from the Mesabi range in Minnesota to Duluth. That is the competing mine.

Third, I would suggest that this government help in the matter of power costs. How can they do that? At the present moment electricity loses a considerable amount of power in its transmission over the wires. I think the time has come when this country should ask its scientists to get busy as the scientists did in Germany and discover a method of transmitting electricity without too much loss of power. That would help to cut down power costs. That is one way in which the government could help.

I have already said that the A ore body was covered with a large overburden of dirt. The government could, if it would, assist in removing the large burden over A ore body by supplying the equipment. That would be something that would enable the company to turn out more ore, and that is the problem. They are expecting, I am told, to turn out this year 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 tons of iron ore. If they could turn out 10,000,000 tons, just think what that would mean! We would then be able to ship this high-grade ore to Vancouver, to mix with the low-grade British Columbia ore and start blast furnaces out there. We would be able to ship to Winnipeg and have blast furnaces and a steel rolling mill and a puddling mill there. We would be able to ship it to Windsor for Ojibway, and open up the three blast furnaces there. Why they did not go on with that development, I do not know. But there should be great steel works in -the vicinity of Windsor. They have them across the river at Detroit,

The Budget-Mr. MacNicol

down the river at Toledo, down the lake at Cleveland. We should like to have a steel plant at Toronto. It would be practicable because we have a great water highway, the greatest in the world.

There is a vision; there is a target to shoot at, for this countiy to produce as much iron ore as it can and smelt it into iron and steel.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, for your great kindness to me before the dinner recess.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Daniel (Dan) McIvor

Liberal

Mr. McIVOR:

I should like to ask the hon. member a question. Does he think that dollar parity will result in a boost for the Steep Rock iron ore? I know it will be a great help to our people in the purchase of United States heavy trucks. Does he not think the dollar parity measure will be a great help in selling this iron ore in Canada?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PC

John Ritchie MacNicol

Progressive Conservative

Mr. MacNICOL:

In answer to the hon. member's first question, I might say I am for whatever will produce iron ore in Canada.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. CLARENCE GILLIS (Cape Breton South):

Mr. Speaker, it is not my desire to prolong this debate-

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. GILLIS:

-but after the last forty-five minutes I am not making any apologies.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PC

John Ritchie MacNicol

Progressive Conservative

Mr. MacNICOL:

I have been on my feet for just thirty-five minutes.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Daniel (Dan) McIvor

Liberal

Mr. McIVOR:

I should like to say that the last forty-five minute speech was extremely good.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. GILLIS:

That is a matter of opinion. I always enjoy listening to the hon. member for Davenport (Mr. MacNicol) making an *historical survey of water or power or metals. The thing I can never figure out is how the group to my right can plead with the Minister of Finance (Mr. Ilsley) to grant exemption from taxation to billion dollar corporations and at the same time suggest the taxing of cooperatives, people who are lifting themselves up by their bootstraps. That is an angle which always provokes me; it is completely inconsistent. They say, do not tax these billion dollar corporations; provide everything in the way of social security, but do not tax anyone except the people down in the $750 class; spare these poor corporations!

I am going to try to stick with the budget for a few minutes. The hon. member for Vancouver East (Mr. Maclnnis), speaking for this group, made a general survey of the budget and did, I think, an excellent job. What I am going to try to do is to be as

brief and as explicit as possible on points which, I think, support the arguments he advanced.

To begin with, I am not quarrelling with the Minister of Finance. The minister just happens to occupy a very uncomfortable position; and so long as the rules of the game are as they are, and hon. members on both sides of this house rise in their places and insist that those who hold the means of life in this country in their possession to-day should utilize those means of life for private profit, the minister is going to have to do the kind of job which he has done in this budget. There is no alternative.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink

July 9, 1946