Mr. M. J. COLDWELL (Rosetown-Biggar):

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a matter of personal privilege. In the five o'clock edition of the Ottawa Journal of yesterday's date the story appears on the front page, headed: "House Sustains Speaker's Ruling to Bar Questions." Referring to myself the article states:

While he asked for and was refused an explanation of the ruling. CC.F. leader Coldwell headed his followers in voting with the Liberals to uphold the Speaker.

Later in the article, on page 14, again in reference to myself, it states:

Mr. Coldwell, wrho had protested against C.C.F. questions being dropped from the order paper and then restored without explanation, asked for further information.

Privilege-Mr. Coldwell

"Will you please make your ruling clear?" he asked Dr. Fauteux.

"The ruling is quite clear," replied the Speaker.

Denied a fuller explanation, Mr. Graydon appealed.

This obviously is an incorrect and garbled account of what actually took place. I have consulted the official record-and may I interject just here, Mr. Speaker, also perhaps another matter of personal privilege, that it is unfortunate we are not receiving Hansard in time to check it before the house meets. I had to go to the office of Hansard and consult the record there. I think every attempt should be made by the Secretary of State and by the king's printer to improve the service in this house which is required in the circumstances. But I quote from the official record:

Mr. Coldwell: Would Your Honour make the ruling clear? I did not understand your ruling as the hon. member for Peel (Mr. Graydon) seems to interpret it. My understanding is that questions will be permitted on the order paper when the subject matter of these questions is not referred specifically to a committee, 'which makes all the difference in the world.

Mr. Mackenzie: That is right.

Mr. Coldwell: I think that is a ruling which the house should substantiate because I think it is a correct one.

Mr. Speaker: The hon. gentleman is perfectly right, and for the information of the house I shall read the conclusion of my remarks:

"In conclusion, I think it is, generally speaking, a wise rule that provides that while a committee is inquiring into a matter the house will not encroach on its jurisdiction by allowing the same matter to be discussed in the house, but members must not be debarred from seeking information by placing on the order paper questions -which are not debatable and do not give rise to discussions As long as these questions do not deal with the very specific matters referred to, they should be permitted to appear on the order paper."

That is the official report. It is to be regretted that the Ottawa Journal which, for many years, had a reputation for accuracy, should on several occasions of late-

Mr. GRAYDON:

It still has.

Mr. ROSS (Souris):

It still has.

Mr. COLDWELL:

-have published stories which bear little or no resemblance to what actually took place in this house.

Before I sit down I wish merely to add that, as I stated yesterday, in my opinion the explanation given was a correct interpretation of the rule, and on that ground we voted to sustain your ruling, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. ROSS (Souris):

It is always difficult

to sit on both sides of the fence.

Hon. IAN A. MACKENZIE (Minister of Veterans Affairs): I wish to rise to a question

of privilege. I have a certain amount, a somewhat humble amount, of responsibility in regard to the activities of this house, and I found it my duty yesterday to vote against His Honour's decision. I am profoundly convinced that my decision was correct. I say that whereas you cannot discuss the proceedings of a committee until the committee has reported back to the house, there is no impairment or impediment to any freely elected member of the parliament of Canada in discussing any matter referred to a committee. The house will recall that earlier this session the hon. member for Souris (Mr. Ross) asked me if any questions referred to the committee on veterans affairs could be discussed in this house, and I immediately consented.

Mr. SPEAKER:

Order.

Mr. MACKENZIE:

This is a question of

privilege, and I am entitled to explain my position in this house.

Hear, hear.

Mr. SPEAKER:

Order.

Mr. MACKENZIE:

With all respect to you, sir, I am not going to be compelled to sit down in regard to any matter which as a private member for Vancouver Centre I am entitled to refer to in this house. I insist on my question of privilege, and I am not going to be bound by any archaic rules of the eighteenth or nineteenth century.

Mr. SPEAKER:

I would ask the minister

to be kind enough to resume his seat. I am not questioning the right of the hon. gentleman to rise on a question of privilege. He may rise at any time; that as the privilege of the hon. minister and of all other hon. members. But I wonder if I should permit the hon. gentleman or any other hon. member to discuss or debate the ruling that was given yesterday.

Mr. MACKENZIE :

That is quite correct,

Mr. Speaker, and with all respect I was not questioning your ruling at all. I was trying to explain the stand I had to take as a matter of conscientious duty as a member of this house.

Hon. PAUL MARTIN (Secretary of State):

In the course of his remarks the hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar (Mr. Coldwell) suggested that perhaps the king's printer was not acting with dispatch in the printing of Hansard. As the responsible minister I should say that I think on reflection the hon. member will realize that the king's printer and his staff are working under very difficult conditions.

Judges Act.

The house is now meeting in the morning. When the house met at three o'clock in the afternoon Hansard was always available to hon. members before the opening of sittings. I am sure the hon. member had no intention of casting any aspersions on the efficiency of the king's printer, and I believe he will agree that the staff of the king's printer is doing its work as efficiently as is possible under the circumstances.

I was casting no reflection upon the king's printer or upon the Secretary of State. I was only asking that an attempt be made to speed up the distribution of Hansard.