Mr. KNOWLES:

Then, if the minister is making a speech, may I point out that he has already spoken in the debate on second reading. His speech is reported at page 325 of Hansard.

Mr. MITCHELL:

Well, I was answering a question.

Mr. MACKENZIE:

Yes, he was answering a question.

Mr. SPEAKER:

Order. I am sorry to interrupt the minister, but I must call his attention to the fact that the privileges of the house apply to both sides, and that he can speak only once on second reading. Of course he has the privilege to put a question to the hon. member.

Mr. MARTIN:

He is answering a question.

Mr. ADAMSON:

On a point of order, I understood that the Minister of Mines and Resources put a question to the hon. member for Simcoe North, and that the hon. member yielded the floor so that the question could be asked. But he yielded only for the question. He had not concluded his remarks, and therefore he still has the floor.

Mr. MITCHELL:

May I say this to the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre, that I think he is the. most expensive luxury in this house. I understand that the cost of debates is $60 a minute. He has taken up his share of time.

Mr. KNOWLES:

If that is the minister's answer to the point of order I raised, it is an admission that he was wrong.

Mr. MACKENZIE:

That is another $50.

Mr. MITCHELL:

He could be a little charitable when I am answering a question.

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Mr. SPEAKER:

I suggest that the minister should wait until we get into committee of the whole.

Mr. E. B. McIvAY (Weyburn): Mr. Speaker, I have a few words to say on this subject. First, I wish to commend the government upon the steps already taken to repeal the Chinese Immigration Act. Inadequate as this now appears to be, it is at least a step in the right direction. Because of that, I commend the government upon the action taken. The repeal of this act is a forward movement to eliminate, in part, racial discrimination exercised in the past against this group of Asiatic people. However it appears that much has yet to be done to remove all discriminatory tendencies in the administration of our immigration laws. May I refer at this time to a statement made by a prominent churchman, Very Reverend Doctor Peter Bryce, who stated in a recent speech:

Race prejudice must go. Colour discrimination must be put aside. The Christian ethic is everlastingly true and not only true but indispensable.

Another statement has been issued by the Ottawa diocesan synod of the Church of England, which appeared in the Ottawa Journal of May 1, and I quote, in part:

This synod opposes any advantage being given to immigrants of any -racial or religious group.

There should not be any preferred races if Canada is to escape the charge of having discriminatory legislation. One race cannot be accepted as superior to another. Indeed there is no superior race. Canadian boys laid down their lives to defeat militarism promoted by a race which rated itself as supermen. Those people believed themselves fitted by their racial characteristics to rule the world. Let us have done with superior races and preferred nations. A continuance of such a policy gives rise only to hatreds and contributes to war psychology.

The world is faced with the problem of finding homes for refugees created as a result of militarism and anti-race prejudice ran wild. The world has been saved from aggression and totalitarianism, but in the wake of that great world struggle to free the world from these influences there has been created much distress. I was glad to hear the Prime Minister {Mr. Mackenzie King) say in his statement yesterday to the House of Commons that, while Canada is not obligated as a result of membership in the united nations or under the constitution of the international refugee organization to accept any specified number of refugees or displaced persons, we admitted

a moral obligation. We in this group are pleased that that admission of moral obligation was made. Undoubtedly Canada has that moral obligation.

But we must go farther than just to admit a moral obligation. The Prime Minister added to his first statement by saying that machinery is to be set up to move some thousands of refugees to Canada. I shall look forward with interest to the number that are admitted. I hope that not too many barriers will be placed against the qualification of these refugees for entry into Canada, and it is to be hoped that other limitations will not be used as an excuse for not bringing these folk to our shores. In this connection, may I refer again to the remarks made yesterday by the Prime Minister, as reported on page 2645 of Hansard. He said:

The resettlement of refugees and displaced persons constitutes a special problem. In the intergovernmental committee on refugees, and in the discussions in the united nations leading to the establishment of the international refugee organization, Canada has taken an active part. In this connection, the government has taken measures respecting the admission of refugees and displaced persons, and also of Polish exsoldiers. These measures, though not of wide scope, are practical steps within the present physical limitations imposed by transportation.

With regard to transportation I have heard several people say that the lack of shipping has been the chief reason why displaced persons have not been moved to Canada. May I ask the minister at this stage if representations have been made at any time by the British government with regard to relieving the situation of displaced persons in camps in British occupied Germany? Many fine people from the Baltic states are to be found in the British zone. While those people are of German ethnic origin, they have never been our enemies. Britain has already taken some 250,000 refugees but she is not in position to accept a great many more. I am sure that if Canada would agree to admit some of these Baltic people Great Britain would provide the shipping accommodation. Would the minister make a note of my question so that it can be answered at the conclusion of my remarks?

The situation facing these refugees is tragic and their condition is grave, so much so as to demand speedy action on the part of the Canadian government. Tens of thousands of these hopeless people are roaming the streets and highways of Germany, Austria and Italy. Day by day these people are becoming mentally sicker and sicker, believing that no country or people want them. Many thousands are dying of malnutrition and

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disease. The condition of these people is such that anything which is to be done for them must be done with dispatch.

I believe that if Canadians were acquainted with the terrible conditions which these people face there would be a growing demand from all sections of the country that something be done on their behalf immediately. During the last war Canada poured out blood and treasure to establish freedom throughout the world, freedom not only for ourselves but for every people, regardless of race, colour or creed. If we are to have that freedom for all people which the united nations charter has set up as a right, some effort must be made to provide economic freedom for people as well as political freedom. There is very little hope of obtaining economic freedom for the displaced people in Europe.

Wars bring many after problems, not the least of which is a pressing refugee problem which appears most serious in many parts of Europe. The united nations are faced with the task of locating homes for these people who are the heirs of a militant fascism run wild. There are many folk in the areas laid waste by the invaders who face a hopeless future, a future in which there is little or no opportunity for them to earn a decent living. While some of these people may have political freedom, many are denied even a measure of economic liberty which all of us desire. This in large part nullifies the effect of any political liberty that they may have gained.

Canada as a responsible member of the united nations has a moral obligation to these helpless refugees. With our ample stores of natural resources and a territory largely unpeopled, Canada should be in a better position than most nations to accommodate large numbers of the world's homeless. Many of these people have knowledge and skills which Canada needs. Refugees admitted to Wales in the United Kingdom have been responsible for setting up sixty types of new industries. I have a clipping taken from the Christian Science Monitor, bearing the date line Cardiff. Wales, October 9, which reads:

History is repeating itself here.

More than a thousand years ago. the surrounding valleys began to rise to prosperity as a direct result of the welcome they gave foreign craftsmen-the Danes and the Saxons.

Now a major part in rebuilding the shattered economy of industrial South Wales is once again being played by foreign firms, the greater part of them refugees from Europe.

Like the Huguenots who found refuge in Britain from religious persecution in the 16th century and repaid a hundredfold by the establishment of the British silk industry, most of these firms which sought shelter from Hitlerdominated Europe now are repaying Wales for the welcome they received by establishing light industries completely new to this area.

Industries of a special character involving the manufacture of finer chinaware, jewellery, fine textiles and plastics now employ thousands of Britishers because of the establishment of these manufactures by refugees. A few have even made a contribution to Canada's economic progress by setting up industries here. Refugees of this type can aid in Canada's development. They will not contribute to our unemployment problem but rather will help to solve it. All too few of them have been admitted. Their numbers could be substantially augmented.

I may add that western Canada should be glad to welcome people with such knowledge and techniques in order to establish a balance between industry and agriculture, which is so much desired on the plains. There is on the western prairies an abundance of raw materials, a large consumer market, and quantities of cheap power in the form of coal, oil and natural gas. which should be an inducement to the establishing of industries on the western plains.

The refugee problem is a challenge to our humanity and hospitality. It is real and it is urgent. Many of these people are desirous of entering our gates as the applications for entry on files in the immigration branch can attest. It is an immediate problem which should be dealt with separately and not in any way confused with the immigration question as a whole.

These people need succour. Our humanity should dictate the course to follow and selfish interests should not prevail.

Mr. J. R. MacNICOL (Davenport):

Mr. Speaker, representing a riding that sent many battalions and regiments and many, many thousands of soldiers overseas to fight in the last world war as well as in the first, it is not much wonder that I have been receiving communications approving particularly of section 3(4) (b) whereby the wives or widows and children of soldiers will now be able to come into Canada. Many of these soldiers left wives or widows and children overseas, and I am very glad, therefore, that the minister has seen fit to write into the bill this clause permitting of their entry into Canada. These soldiers were not all of Anglo-Saxon stock, although I am safe in saying that perhaps ninety per cent of them were of Anglo-Saxon stock. Davenport is a riding that gives a good cross-section, Your Honour, of every race, and I am proud of all the different races I have the honour to represent. Many of my constituents are Jews and I am glad to pay a

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tribute to the Jews in my riding. They are a great business people, aside from other worthy characteristics. Many streets in Davenport riding have been built up by the Jewish merchants of Toronto, and to them and to their people I can say that I am happy indeed that they are there.

Many of these people have approached me to see if anything can be done to have admitted into Canada the last remaining member of their family in Europe. I have in mind one family that lived in Germany and consisted of thirty-six people altogether, grandfather, grandmother, brothers, sisters, uncles and children, and today just one is left out of the whole thirty-six, which means that the other thirty-five were killed in the war. They have been begging me to do what I can to have the last remaining member of the family admitted to Canada. Whether the bill permits that, I do not know, but I know the bigness of-the heart of the minister and if the bill does not permit it, I trust that he will have some regulation made whereby the last remaining member of the Jewish family I have in mind-and the Jews suffered more than any other people on the continent during the war -will be permitted to come to Canada.

I have many Ukrainians in my riding, and having been in big business for many years, in the iron and steel business, I know that many Ukrainians were employed in that industry and did splendid work there. I am glad to have Ukrainians in my riding, not only because of their ability to work in industry, but because I know from my travels that there are perhaps no better farmers than the Ukrainians. I have seen them in every part of the west in which I have been and I can speak highly of that race too.

I have a number of French Canadian families in my riding, and I must tell my French Canadian compatriots that, though living in Toronto, they are just as loyal to Quebec and Jts traditions as if they were living in Quebec. I am happy to inform my French Canadian compatriots in the house that these French Canadian families in my riding do not carry on politics there because they all vote for me. I have been in some of their homes and I have /fund them thrifty people, keeping their homes m fine shape. The men are excellent workmen. They read the English papers and I send them the French papers too, so that they can keep abreast of happenings in Quebec.

I have quite a large number of Poles in my riding. In my time there were perhaps 250 or 300 Poles working in the large industry in which I was engaged. They are wonderful iron moulders. They take naturally to the iron industry, and as the bill introduced by the hon. member for Outremont (Mr. Rinfret)

was under discussion tonight looking to the development of the iron mines in Labrador and northern Quebec, I thought to myself that, if that iron industry ever gets going, what a fine place that would be for our Polish citizens to serve and do a fine job. They are great industrial workers, but that is only one characteristic; they have great aptitudes in the arts and sciences, and I find them in high positions everywhere.

I have in mind a Ukrainian family. They are the grandchildren of the pioneer himself, a Ukrainian who could not speak a word of English when he came here. He brought his wife with him, of course, and raised a family here. One of the sons of that father has six children, of whom three are male and three are female. Three male members of the family of this pioneer, once removed from the grandfather pioneer, are highly educated men. Two of them are big engineers; the other is a doctor. The three girls have all graduated in arts from the university. Two of them are teaching school. One of them is a teacher in one of the big collegiates. Who in the world can complain of admitting people like that? These are excellent citizens. They help to build up a country. I love all races. I have not a feeling in my heart against any race. We are all God's creatures. We are just what we were born. We had nothing to do with our ancestors. I am happy to find all races doing well in Davenport riding.

I mentioned the Poles. In that regard I wish to say that some days ago I read in the papers an article that I just did not understand. It alleged that the hon. member for Broadview said something in the house about the Poles. I did not hear it myself. It seemed to be not too pleasant toward the Polish people. I can say this about the hon. member for Broadview, that no other race in the country has any more consistent defender than the hon. member has been of the Poles. The hon. member for Broadview would not intentionally say an unkind word about any race. I have known him for years, and particularly during the long years when he was mayor and controller in Toronto. I always thought he was the choice par excellence of all races. I * am under the impression that what was in the paper must have been a misunderstanding of what the hon. member for Broadview said. He would not say anything about any race that was not in their favour.

In my riding I also have Italians. I can speak of them in the highest terms. The Italians in the Davenport riding are contractors and are doing good jobs. They are thrifty and are getting along as we would want to see them get along. They take part

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in different activities, and in my contact with them I find 'they are as reputable citizens as one will find anywhere.

Then I have quite a number of Czechs in my riding. An hon. member spoke about the Czechs a few moments ago. Like the Germans they have the ability to invent and produce. In the Davenport riding there are quite a number of German and Czech families. Their inventions, their productions and their interest in industry are commendable. We are glad to have them here.

Hon. members will be surprised to learn that I have a few Japs in my riding. I am not one of those who despise the Jap, not by any means. The Japs with whom I have come in contact may not be the same kind of Japs that I have heard some hon. members speak about. All I can say is that 'the Japs in Davenport riding have given a good account of themselves. Those around them seem to consider them excellent citizens.

I have a number of Chinese in my riding. Earlier in the evening someone mentioned the Chinese. I doubt whether there is any race in the world 'that is more patient than the Chinese. Their patience is amazing. They are called the patient Chinese. They, too, have taken a good part in industry in Toronto, apart from laundries and things of that kind. They have big business establishments, and so long as they devote their 'time to .building up the country they deserve consideration.

Then we have quite a number of coloured families who have come from the southern states. I suppose most of them are employed on the railways. I do not know what we would do without our coloured families; I do not know how we would get along if they did not do the jobs they do. Therefore Davenport riding is a cross-section of all races.

As I said at the beginning, I am going to close with this. The predominant part of my riding, not less than ninety to ninety-five per cent, is Anglo-Saxon. As I said a few moments ago, they sent many brigades and many regiments and many, many thousands of soldiers overseas by voluntary enlistment to defend the empire. Naturally I am just as proud as I can be; I could not be more proud, of the Anglo-Saxon population of Davenport riding. During the late war and in all the activities of the city, in business, in learning, in the arts and sciences they stand high. I shall conclude with this: None of us can afford to discount any race. In the world's history they have all been to the top. In the days of Caesar, the Italians were on top. Later on, the Poles were on top of the world. Even the Turks were on top of the world at

one time. In the days of Napoleon the French swept Europe. Therefore they have all demonstrated that they have the characteristics to make real people, to make a real nation. And, sir, if they do their part here in Canada I for one will be glad to have them come here.

Mr. ANTHONY HLYNKA (Vegreville):

The Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King) made a statement yesterday on the government's immigration policy which falls, as he pointed out, into two parts: first, a long-range immigration policy, and second, immediate measures to permit entry to Canada of displaced persons and refugees. With the government's long-range policy I am in entire agreement, and I wish to commend the Prime Minister and the government on that policy, even though the announcement may have little practical value and may mean little for some time to come. Nevertheless the Prime Minister's statement in this connection makes Canada's position clear, and I am sure that the policy he announced will meet with the general approval of the Canadian people.

In dealing with the long-range immigration policy, the Prime Minister made what I consider to be eight important points, and I may add that I agree with every one of them. These were the eight points:

1. That the government was in favour of allowing a substantial number of immigrants to enter Canada.

2. That an increase in population would not lead to the lowering of our standard of living, but that the opposite would be true.

3. That a larger population would provide a larger market for our primary products and would reduce in some measure our dependence on export of our primary products,

4. That a large population would contribute substantially to the development of our natural resources.

5. That Canada should receive immigrants on the basis of our economic absorptive capacity.

6. That the people of Canada would not favour a fundamental alteration in the character of our population.

7. That Canada should reserve to herself the right to control the entry or non-entry of persons seeking to become Canadian citizens, regardless of the charge of discrimination.

8. And this point or consideration is the most important in my view, that Canada "cannot ignore the danger that lies in a small population attempting to hold so great a heritage as ours," to use the Prime Minister's own words. No responsible Canadian can disagree with the Prime Minister on that statesmanlike statement.

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Coming now to the other part of the Prime Minister's statement, namely, the one covering the immediate immigration policy to provide entry to Canada of displaced persons and refugees, I must say that, although I shall support the bill, I have several reservations to make. In the first place, hon. members will have noticed that the statement which the Prime Minister made yesterday was extremely carefully prepared, which indicates that the Prime Minister attaches a great deal of importance to it.

Second, it was the Prime Minister who made the statement in the house and not the Minister of Mines and Resources (Mr. Glen). That, too, carries a certain significance. It is true that the Prime Minister made a general statement only and that the results may be better than those we have had in the first two years since the end of the war. But if the results are not any better than the government has shown in the past, then the government's announcement will be of little practical value. I do not wish to be unduly critical of the government's immediate immigration policy, but I am sure that past experience justifies me in taking a more or less scrutinizing attitude. It was on May 28 of last year that the government passed two orders in council granting permission to certain classes of people to enter Canada. It will be a year on the 28th of this month since those orders in council were passed and only a handful of people were permitted to come into Canada. If Canada is to show her humanitarian attitude in the solution of this problem, I personally believe that we must speed up the work in the immigration branch and also speed up the setting up of the various offices throughout Europe. So far, Canadian immigration offices were opened at Athens, Greece; at Lisbon, Portugal; at Paris, France; at Brussels, Belgium; at The Hague, Holland; at Oslo, Norway; in Czechoslovakia; and we are told that offices will soon be opened in Poland. If we are anxious to help displaced persons and refugees, if we are really sincere in our desire to help them, why not set up immigration offices in Germany, in Austria and in Italy? That is where the displaced persons are and that is where most of the countries have their immigration missions.

When I was in Rome two or three months ago I had the privilege of interviewing the Argentine immigration mission. They had their immigration minister in Rome selecting the type of people whom they wanted. It is very fine for us to say that we have set up offices in the various countries to help the refugees so that they may travel to all these points, apply for their visas and be examined med-

[Mr. Hlynka.3

ically. But the fact remains that refugees have no means of travelling to those points; refugees have no permission to leave their camps and travel to the various countries in order to be examined, and from which they could emigrate to Canada or other countries. The job must be done on the spot and that is one thing that we in Canada have overlooked.

I notice, from the report on immigration and labour, that the director of immigration, Mr. Jolliffe, made the statement that offices cannot be established in Germany, for Germany is under military occupation. That, Mr. Speaker, I submit is not correct; because, as I pointed out, the Argentine mission is in Rome; and Italy was until February 10 and, as a matter of fact, still is occupied territory. These various South American countries have their immigration missions travelling all over Europe selecting the best immigrants they can get. It seems to me that we are working more or less under a misapprehension that the displaced persons are the type of persons whom we must scrutinize almost with suspicion; we must of course, scrutinize them to a degree. But after having seen the displaced persons, I disagree with those hon. members who state, and repeat, that we must be perhaps overcareful andj not allow any of them to come in. That would be the effect, because we are emphasizing so greatly the fact that we must be so careful. The very fact that displaced persons are where they are today is because they have held democratic ideals so high that they have given up their old homes and moved westward so that they may join the western European nations and the United States. Surely we will give those people an opportunity; surely we will choose or take our lot from the very first group that wants to come out.

I am going to be frank and say this: unless Canada moves at a more rapid pace than she has done thus far, we are not going to get the best type of immigrant. The best type of people will go elsewhere. They cannot continue to live in the camps which consist of old garages, old military barracks and old stables. In them are people of all ranks among whom are persons who, I must say, in many respects are much better than we are. There are in those camps persons who have written numbers of books and persons who can make the most remarkable things out of practically nothing. If any of us found! ourselves in a camp, what could we do? What would1 our talents be? But we forget these things. We feel that we are on this continent and are safe, that we do not have to worry about anybody in Europe. I maintain that if the

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Canadian government were serious in this matter they would have sent an immigration mission to Europe last year to investigate conditions and bring in certain recommendations to the government and to this parliament. But no. We do not care what happens to the displaced persons and refugees. We pass orders in council. Last year, on May 28, the Minister of Mines and Resources tabled certain orders in council in this chamber. Since then, in one year's time, only fourteen people of my origin were admitted to Canada. Those people cannot stay in the camps indefinitely and we must realize that.

I might point out that the organization known as IGCR-intergovernmental committee for refugees- is doing good work in Europe. I have had several interviews with Canadian representatives-as a matter of fact, they were Canadians themselves-and they were doing everything in their power to speed up the bringing of a certain number of displaced persons to Canada. But they were helpless. They pointed out that the regulations were such as to permit hardly anyone to leave. They could not go into the camps and demand that certain individuals be handed over, so that they might be examined and have their documents prepared in order that they might leave. First of all, they had to ascertain whether the person in a displaced persons camp was a relative; they had to investigate his history, and then on this side we make an investigation into the economic condition of the person applying for the admission of that relative, and so on. I spent three months travelling in Europe where these displaced' persons are. I have seen these people; I have seen the conditions under which they live, and I must disagree with the suggestion by the Prime Minister that transportation facilities are not available and therefore we must wait until they are. As a matter of fact he stated that it may be more than a year before transportation can be provided. Well, if we are to wait another year some of these people in Europe will not 'be able to last that long.

Then the Prime Minister pointed out that it is not the regulations that matter, that they will not speed up the entry of these people into Canada. If it is a fact that ships cannot be provided, nothing can be done about that phase of the problem, but if these persons were granted permission to come to Canada; if they were given visas, then they could obtain transit visas which would enable them to go to France, Holland or Belgium, obtain employment there and help rebuild those countries. Then, when we could provide transportation we could call them up and they would be ready to leave. So I plead with the minister to give 83166-175

his most sympathetic and serious consideration to that partial solution of the problem. Grant visas to the people who are acceptable to us, who we feel might come to Canada, and let them emigrate elsewhere for the time being until they can be brought to this country. Then certainly we would be doing a humanitarian job.

I must say that when representatives of the various countries asked me about Canada's immigration policy I had to keep my lips closed and say nothing. They asked me why Canada with its vast area and rich natural resources would not accept any of these people, while a little country like Britain could accept hundreds of thousands of them. The British people stood by their humanitarian principles, and personally I bow my head to them. We know the British people are short of food and short of housing. We know it is more difficult for them to accommodate Europeans who do not speak their language, but they do accept them, while we are putting off playing our part in the matter. Two years have passed; now we have another announcement made in the house. What will be the next step?

As I have said, I agree wholeheartedly with the first part of the Prime Minister's statement, but if I understand that announcement properly the indications are that those people in displaced persons camps have little hope of coming to Canada, with the exception of those who may be able to stick it out, no matter what happens. Recently I read in the newspapers where some of the British and United States military authorities said that unless IRO takes over the problem of looking after displaced persons the British and American governments may be forced to send these people back under the Soviets, regardless of the people's wishes. Surely a statement like that is of great concern to Canadians who have relatives in these camps. I cannot emphasize this phase of the problem too strongly.

If time permitted I would wish to bring to the house a picture of the life of these people. Just here I might refer to an article appearing in World Report of August 15, 1946. in which it is stated that the United States of America, the United Kingdom and Canada contributed ninety-four per cent of all the money that w'as placed at the disposal of UNRRA. It was also stated that forty per cent of the supplies distributed by UNRRA were distributed in the areas dominated or controlled by the Soviet Union. It does not seem logical that the English-speaking countries of the world should contribute ninety-four per cent of all the money spent by UNRRA and yet allow themselves to be pushed around by the

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Soviets on this question. That is, however, the fact. United States military authorities in the occupied zones of Austria and Germany, and the British military authorities in those countries, as well as in Italy where there is a joint occupation force, have simply allowed themselves to be pushed around at every suggestion coming from Moscow. They fear what Moscow is going to say if they refuse to hand over these people. They fear what Moscow may say if they help these people to emigrate to other countries. It seems to me that we should stand on our own feet to avoid being pushed over the precipice, and say we believe that we should provide an asylum for the homeless, the stateless, the unfortunate people of Europe. There is only a very small number of them. As a matter of fact, I think the problem has been exaggerated, so far as numbers are concerned. Many say that there are simply millions of people. There were; but displaced persons now constitute a very small problem, if a number of countries agreed to take a share of the responsibility. Canada could take a share of that responsibility, and need not move only at the time when the senate committee begins its work.

Incidentally, at this point I wish to pay tribute to the senate committee on immigration and labour for having done a great service for this nation in bringing about a discussion on immigration during the last session. I extend my hearty thanks to them again this year for having begun to do the same thing.

Those who are worried about the type of people found among displaced persons have no reason to worry. I for one am confident that they will love Canada and be grateful to Canada and we will love them if we allow them to come in. But I do want to say that of the many displaced persons in the camps, people of Ukrainian origin, people of Polish origin, people of Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian and Yugoslav origin, not one is a communist. Surely that should be a point in their favour. I am certain that if they' are allowed to come into Canada not one of them will ever support communism; they will be the strongest defenders of democracy. And they have proven it thus far, by having lost everything, by having to give up their homes and all their earthly possessions in order to defend and to stand up in defence of the principles of freedom.

I pointed out to General Fenshawe, who is head of UNRRA in the British zone, that he should do everything in his power not to allow forced repatriation of those unfortunate

people. They have no armies behind them; they have no propaganda machines behind them; they have no economic means behind

them. They are simply helpless, homeless and unfortunate people. I said to him, "Stand by these people, and you will never regret it." If we do not stand by them now, what will they think? If some of them live long enough to be shipped back under a dictatorship, surely we Canadians should rather welcome them now as immigrants than to meet some of them, perhaps, with bayonets, coming from the north. Surely we should realize that.

I am glad that when the Prime Minister made his statement he did not miss saying that we cannot ignore the danger which lies in a small population attempting to hold so great a heritage as ours. That is the most important point of all. If we disappoint these people now, after we have appealed to them for more than thirty years to believe in Christianity, to believe in democracy, and

then, when they want to cling to democracy and Christianity, we tell them, "No, we cannot accept you; we are sorry, but our regulations do not permit of our taking you" or, "We have no boats", such answers are not good enough. They have given up everything for the ideals I have mentioned.

I should like now to read from an article which appeared in the Evening Standard of London, England, under date of February 7, 1947. Lieutenant-General Sir Frederick Morgan, in a speech delivered at a luncheon given by the News Remew World held at the Savoy, said this:

What a distressingly typical symptom of our rising tide of bureaucracy it is that has wished on these unfortunates the label "displaced persons." This unhappy term, carelessly or perhaps even cleverly used, has come to be associated in most people's minds with shiftless mendicancy, even with criminality. How wrong this is.

Though most of you know why these displaced persons became displaced, it is not strikingly evident why they remain displaced and why it is so vitally urgent that something be done now to help them. They cannot help themselves. In the popular conception UNRRA has failed, and failed most notoriously in its DP operations. What better means of economising, you may argue, than to withdraw our help from the DPs and let them fend, somehow or other, for themselves. They have no governments at their backs likely to complain. Have I overdrawn the picture? Maybe, maybe not.

Well, what is to be done now? Must anything be done? It must indeed. For whether we like it or not we are committed to succouring these homeless people.

Have we helped them so far merely to turn round upon them now and tell them we intend to do no more? God forbid. Do we tell them to get back behind the iron curtain and take their medicine?

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Why is it that we cannot grasp this problem of the absorption among our own teeming millions of this small remnant of misery that owes its sufferings so much to the fact that it has friendship towards us? What is stopping us? A rapid and positive solution is so much to be desired from every point of view. We in this country-

He is speaking of Great Britain.

-are crying out for labour.

I say roundly that it is incumbent on us, the British, to set an example in the matter by dealing quickly and fearlessly with our share of the problem with the quarter million or so of DPs in our British zone of Germany.

Let us bring them here, I say, not as expatriated minorities, but as the families of our friends, for such they are. You may adduce difficulties of feeding or of housing. But we feed them now in Germany.

To them, I assure you, the veriest pigsty in England would be a palace in comparison with what they have had to inhabit these many years. And there seems to have been, to be. little difficulty in housing, and feeding many thousands of our enemies and ex-enemies-* prisoners of war.

Is this too much to ask? Are we, by any chance, afraid to face up to it for fear of what are called repercussions? If so, let us just remember that the obstacles which exist are man-made. Man made the restrictions, man can unmake them if he wills.

We should think this problem through carefully once more and we should set wheels in motion if we mean what we say. Passing orders in council and changing regulations are not going to help these people who are in displaced persons camps. It is an immediate problem; it is an urgent problem, and its solution has been dragged out now for two years. AVe have hardly admitted anyone; we simply clamped down and sat tight and said, "We are trying; we are considering the matter." That is not good enough. I should like to give the minister and his officials and the government all the credit to which they are entitled, based on the recent announcement, but I fear that if I begin to laud the government they will simply sit back, and the results at the end of the year will not be any better than they were at the end of last year. Whatever is to be done should be done quickly.

Even though it may be late, I suggest that the government should send an immigration mission to the United States and British zones of Germany and Austria and to Italy to see these people, to study them and to study the conditions under which they live. I can tell this house that some of these men and women whom I met there are just the type of people Canada could be proud of, and I am sure we would gain a lot by letting them in. I should like to commend the Minister of Mines and Resources (Mr. Glen), the 83166-175i

Minister of Labour (Mr. Mitchell) and the Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. St. Laurent) upon having agreed to grant permission to several industrialists to bring in a few of these displaced persons.

Some hon. members have criticized the government for taking that step, but it seems to me that they are somewhat hasty because no one as yet has exploited these people. I believe these industrialists are sincere in trying to help these people. If they bring in a number of them at their own expense and later deduct transportation expenses from the money earned by the workers I think it is an excellent idea. It is one way of solving the problem and doing our share. So I thank the ministers for having agreed to permit the bringing in of a few of these people.

One could speak on this subject for hours and hours, but by saying over and over again what has been said once I might not be making the case any stronger. I have been critical of the immediate policy of the government in connection with the bringing in of displaced persons, because I feel so keenly about the matter. I know the conditions under which these people live. If we allow them to stay in these camps much longer some of them will simply not be able to stand it. AAre would not have been able to stand it if we were in their position. They have gone through six years of war and have been two years in these camps, and we are expecting them to wait still longer.

1 will close by appealing to the minister and to the government to put into practice the regulations which have been tabled. If the whole job is speeded up and done well, I shall be only too glad to rise in my place to express thanks to the government for having done their part in solving this great humanitarian problem.

Mr. F. S. ZAPLITNY (Dauphin):

Mr. Speaker, I do not intend to add very much to the remarks I made when I spoke on Monday last. However, I should like to comment on a point or two, now that we have the statement of the Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King) before us. On Monday last I raised the question of action in the matter of displaced persons and particularly of refugees, and I was pleased to note that in a few days we had before the house something which gave us a basis for further discussion. I think the Minister of Mines and Resources (Mr. Glen) was prepared to say a word or two on Monday last, but he did not have an opportunity. I was glad to note that the Prime Minister used words which indicate that at

Immigration Act

least something definite is being undertaken at this time. He is reported on page 2645 of Hansard as saying:

The government is sending immigration officers to examine the situation among the refugee groups, and to take steps looking towards the early admission of some thousands of their number.

I take it, by taking those words at face value, the Prime Minister meant that the government is taking definite steps at this time toward speeding up the admission of these classes of people.

Before going on to the next point and as an aside I wish to say that I think the house ought to be congratulated upon the high plane of the discussion which has been carried on today. It was a great pleasure and satisfaction to me, listening to this problem in which I have such a close interest, to hear hon. members one after another deal with this problem from the point of view of a sense of responsibility which this country has. It is no use approaching it from one particular angle because it is a two-fold problem. First, we must consider what we can do with our immigration policy to help Canada and, second, what we can do to help people outside Canada. I was pleased to note that hon. members did not approach this problem from the one point of view alone, but took in the whole picture.

I was pleased also to note that those who referred to the various races which make up this country did so in the kindest terms. I think it augurs well for the future of this country when hon. members, regardless of race or creed, can rise in their places in this house and say things about each other in that fashion.

I wish to put on record a recommendation that was sent on to me and submitted, I believe, to the government some time ago by the Ukrainian Catholic Council of Canada, which speaks for five dominion-wide Catholic organizations. I do so, because in two simple paragraphs they set out clearly and succinctly what I believe the government might well consider as a short-term and a long-term policy. First, as a short-term programme, they set out this:

It is desirous that the dominion government, at the least, arrange for the immigration of the refugees who already have affidavits from their Canadian next-of-kin, and for whose transportation and welfare guarantees have been made by these Canadian citizens.

Then, as a long-range policy, they suggest this:

Furthermore, it is thought that the dominion government should embark upon a bold but sensible immigration policy, and like Canadian

[Mr. Zaplitny.}

governments of the past seek to stimulate the material development of Canada by changing our stringent immigration laws and devising a wholesome government immigration plan that would integrate the flow of immigrants with the development of the country, geared to our potential resources and to a scientifically-determined, desirable population level.

That, in very few words, sets out an immediate and a long-range programme which we might very well consider. I think we all realize that there is a difficulty involved in trying to say today what our immigration policy should be a year hence or two years or five years from now, because the economic conditions of the country at that time will have a great deal to do with the absorptive capacity of the country.

I want to mention again a suggestion I placed before the Minister of Mines and Resources on Monday, and that is whether he would not take under consideration the issuing of visas to people who have been found to be in admissible classes but who, for the time being, cannot find transportation to come to Canada. I am sure that when he takes part in this debate he will have something to say on that subject. I think he realizes the importance and the necessity of doing that in certain cases, since there are many people who, because they have nothing to show that they will be admitted to Canada, are being hounded around and being told to go back to their country of origin or go elsewhere. In other words, they are not only displaced but find themselves as unwanted people in the displaced persons camps. A document of that sort in tangible form would be something for them to anchor themselves to and would give them hope.

I do not need to say much more. It is almost eleven o'clock; but before I conclude I wish to refer to the other part of this bill which has been almost forgotten in the recent discussion, and that is the provision for the repeal of the Chinese Immigration Act. I am not going to repeat all the fine things that have been said about those of the Chinese race in this country. I know we all want our laws to be as fair as possible to all concerned and, since this provision means the talcing of one more step toward wiping out any discrimination which may exist, to that extent I am in favour of it. Much has been said in this debate about developing tolerance among the various races in this country. Desirable as that may be as an immediate objective, what we need in the long run is not mere tolerance but the real thing, which is the human instinct of mutual respect for

United Nations

the sanctity of mankind. Nothing less than that will ever do away with discrimination in the end. I think we are slowly and perhaps a bit impatiently moving toward that goal.

On motion of Mr. Mutch the debate was adj ourned.