Mr. MARTIN:

The five per cent penalty has been removed from the section.

Mr. MacNICOL:

I am glad to know that those who endeavour to take care of their old folk are not to be penalized for doing so, as has been the case in the past.

Mr. Ma-cINNIS: In view of the criticism of the minister while the bill was under discussion in committee I wish to express my appreciation of the amendment which has been moved this afternoon. This is a proper age limit, and perhaps it could have been brought diown even lower. A blind person is just as much handicapped1 at twenty-one as he is at forty, and he is just as much handicapped at seventeen years when the family allowance payments cease as he is at twenty-one. However, I do not wish to detract in any way from the value of the amendment just moved, and I express my appreciation to the minister.

Mr. GREEN:

What provision is being made for the extra cost that a blind person must incur in order to carry on? For example, the cost of obtaining guides and* many other incidental expenses which increase their cost of living.

Mr. MARTIN:

We have increased the additional income allowable and the special allowance of ektra income for guiding expenses, which is now to be $120 instead of $75 as formerly. That recommendation was made by the blind institute.

Mr. GREEN:

They have to get those amounts from some other source?

Mr. MARTIN:

That is right.

Mr. GREEN:

In clause (b) of section 8A reference is made to the War Veterans Allowance Act. I should like to ask either the Minister of National Health and Welfare or the Minister of Veterans Affairs to explain whether it is possible for a recipient of war veterans allowance to switch over to an old age pension? In most provinces old age pensioners receive larger payments than the veterans allowance recipient and I know many veterans who are finding it impossible to carry on with the present allowance. What is

Old Age Pensions

tihe position if they wish to drop their war veterans allowance and go on to old age pension?

Mr. MACKENZIE:

That is a matter

largely for their own choice, but from my little experience of over thirty years I think it would not be to their advantage to do so. The veterans committee will be meeting next year. My personal opinion is tihat it would not be to the advantage of the Veteran to switch over to the old age pension.

Mr. GREEN:

The minister will agree that under the government's old age pension policy to date the dominion is contributing up to a maximum of $30 and then expects the provinces to pay whatever is required over that amount to enable a person to live. That means that in Ontario the old age pensioner is going to get $10 additional and in British Columbia S8.75, and I hope it will be the full $10. The recipient of war veterans allowance is now being looked after by the dominion government. Would it not be reasonable for the dominion government to raise the war veterans allowance to the same figure as the old age pension?

Mr. MACKENZIE:

Has my hon. friend

taken into consideration both the single man and the married recipient of war veterans aillowance? If he makes a careful comparison of the total income permitted from two or three other sources I think he will find that the veteran would lose by switching over.

Mr. GREEN:

I am not referring to the case where there is extra income, but where there is the war veterans allowance and nothing else.

Mr. MACKENZIE:

There is no such case.

Mr. GREEN:

There are cases in which

the men are not getting an amount over and above the war veterans allowance, and as a result they have to live on $30.41 a month.

Mr. MACKENZIE:

There is no such case unless they are disabled.

Mr. GREEN:

I know of cases in which

they have no other benefits; they cannot have any other income except by working or from savings. If the province is to bring the old age pension up to $40, surely there is an obligation on the dominion to bring the war veterans allowance up to $40. Is any move of that kind in contemplation?

Mr. MACKENZIE:

I do not want to

enter into an argument. This matter is receiving, I do not like to say consideration, but the anxious care of the government, and early next session my personal opinion, for

what it is worth is that we shall have another veterans committee reviewing the whole situation as it did last year, and with great ability.

Mr. KNOWLES:

Has consideration been given to the request of blind organizations that the legislation respecting the blind be made separate from the Old Age Pensions Act?

Mr. MARTIN:

Consideration has been given to that.

Mr. KNOWLES:

Will further consideration be given to it, in view of the fact that the request has not yet been implemented?

Mr. MARTIN:

Further consideration is being given to it.