Hon. DOUGLAS ABBOTT .(Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a statement in reply to certain questions which have been addressed to me concerning war savings certificates. On February 19 last the hon. member for Lake Centre (Mr. Diefenbaker) asked me whether consideration had been given by the government, in the interests of convenience on the part of holders of war savings certificates, to the cashing of these certificates at local post offices. I wish to assure the house that this is a question to which we have given serious consideration during the past year. As hon. gentlemen know, the terms under which these certificates were issued and which are printed on each certificate require that they be endorsed and forwarded to Ottawa for redemption. On several occasions we have considered whether we could not overlook this requirement and allow them to be cashed at local post offices or banks. On each occasion we have been forced to the conclusion that it would be impossible to justify such a procedure. The primary reason for this decision is the very large number of duplicate certificates which are outstanding. During the last few years a very large number of certificates has been reported lost or stolen and in order to save a lot of trouble and expense to their owners who in so many cases are persons of small income who have not previously owned securities of any kind, we have followed the practice of duplicating the lost or stolen certificates without the production of a bond of indemnity. Hon. gentlemen may be aware that before a bond or coupon which has been reported lost or stolen may be replaced, the owner must arrange indemnification for the Bank of Canada and the government of Canada against any claim in respect of the items reported lost or stolen. This enables us to provide for the cashing of bonds or coupons at local banks. The number of certificates reported lost or stolen is much too great (it is of the order of sixty thousand) to permit bank tellers or postmasters to check through a list before making settlement, nor could such a list possibly be kept up to date. Even the publication and distribution of such a list, which would run into the size of a book, would be of no use to safeguard against overpayments as it would be perfectly possible that identification would not prevent duplication of payment if the original certificate and the duplicate certificate were presented at different times or different places. The only way in which such overpayment can be prevented is to have the certificates sent to Ottawa and to have them checked against a central registry maintained at Ottawa before payment is made. I have now explained the main reason why the suggested change in procedure cannot be made. I wish to go on and emphasize how simple and inexpensive the present procedure really is. All that the holder of a war savings certificate needs to do to get payment for it at maturity is to endorse it on the back as required, insert it in an envelope addressed to the registrar, war savings certificates, Ottawa, and drop the envelope in a mail box. He does not need to send a covering letter, he does not need to send the certificate by registered mail, and he does not even have to put a postage stamp on the letter. If there has been a change of address, it can be noted War Savings Certificates

on the certificate. Cheques issued in redemption of certificates may be negotiated free of charge at any branch of any chartered bank in Canada upon satisfactory identification. It is all as simple as that and I wish its simplicity were more widely realized. Perhaps we should have taken steps by advertising or otherwise to explain to the public generally how simple it was, and on this point I would welcome the views of the house. For those holders who may feel it inconvenient to mail certificates to Ottawa, even though the letter does not require registration or a postage stamp, the banks have offered to provide a collection service for a modest charge. Any person may present his maturing certificates to a branch bank and for a charge of five cents a certificate, regardless of denomination, the bank will forward the certificate for collection and credit the proceeds to the account of the certificate owner. Of course, if the owner wishes safekeeping services as well, there is a standard scale of charges which has been in effect for some time. A suggestion was made to me that the charge of five cents a certificate made by the banks should be assumed by the government. There are many certificate holders who have no banking accounts and some who are very remote from any bank. A great many holders will in any case prefer to send their certificates directly to Ottawa rather than take advantage of the service offered by the banks. It did not seem to me therefore that the government could justify making all the taxpayers of Canada, including those who perform the service for themselves, assume the cost of a service required by a portion of the public. [DOT] Another question about war savings certificates was asked by the hon. member for Peterborough West (Mr. Fraser) on February 17 last. It was as follows: Owing to the fact that it - takes from two weeks to two months from the time a war savings certificate is handed in to a chartered bank for collection before the proceeds are forwarded to the bank from the Bank of Canada, will the minister check with officials of the Bank of Canada to see if the handling and clearance of these certificates can be speeded up so that the holders can get their money promptly without loss of interest? I have checked with officials of the Bank of Canada and am advised that it is difficult to understand the statement made in the middle of February that it takes from two weeks to two months from the time a war savings certificate is handed in to a chartered bank for collection before the proceeds are forwarded to the bank from the Bank of Canada. When the banks began taking war savings certificates for collection and sending them in to Ottawa, there was some delay because it took time to get the necessary forms distributed to the head offices and branches of the banks throughout the country but there should no longer be any delay due to this factor. I am advised that the Bank of Canada made a test examination of the time required to handle maturing certificates received from financial institutions during the current month and found that if the certificates received are all in order the redemption cheques are mailed not later than the fourth day after the certificates are received. It sometimes happens that certificates are received in advance of their maturity date for redemption at maturity. In these circumstances it is the practice to return the certificates to the sender if there is time for them to reach him and be submitted again by the first of the month in which they mature. An explanatory note is returned with the certificates. If time does not permit of the above procedure, it is the practice to hold the certificates until the month in which they mature and mail a cheque in time to reach the sender or on about the appropriate redemption date, namely, the fifteenth of that month. I may add that maturing certificates may, if desired, be forwarded by the individual holder as well as by a bank to reach Ottawa on or about the first day of the month in which they mature and the cheque itself will be mailed in time to reach the payee on or about the maturity date of the certificate.

(Questions answered orally are indicated by an asterisk).