Hon. COLIN GIBSON (Secretary of State):

On February 10 the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. Knowles) asked that either His Honour the Speaker or I look into the recent circular issued by the king's printer with reference to reprints from Hansard.

The hon. member referred to the second report of the joint committee on printing to be found at page 887 of Journals, dated July 14, 1947, and objected that, as concurrence in the report had not been moved, it was a breach of the rights and privileges of hon. members that the recommendations contained in the report should have been put into effect.

Since that time I have received a letter from the hon. member respecting Hansard reprints, emphasizing that he is quite prepared to accept changes in the regulations that are made and approved by the House of Commons and requesting that the previous regulations be continued until such time as any changes are approved by the House of Commons.

I should like to point out that while the joint committee on printing has authority to decide what papers and reports shall be printed, all matters concerning the contents and distribution of Hansard come under the jurisdiction of the committee on debates. Parliament has left it to the king's printer, under the provisions of the Printing and Stationery Act, to set such charges as he deems necessary to meet the cost of printing members' orders for reprints of speeches contained in Hansard.

Recently there has grown up a practice for which there has been no authorization or regulation. Some members of various parties have ordered the printing of pamphlets purporting to be reprints of speeches as contained in Hansard, but which have been considerably altered, through deletions or amendments, from the original text. In many cases subheadings have been inserted, passages have been underlined and in some cases the cover has been adorned with the portrait of the member making the speech. The printing of pamphlets containing such additions does not come within the scope of the duties of the king's printer.

Inquiries of the Ministry

As hon. members may well understand, a reprint from Hansard does not involve much expenditure of time or money; but the printing of speeches which have been distorted from the original text involves the resetting of type, with consequent loss of time and additional expense, at a time when the staff of the printing bureau is working at high pressure to produce not only Hansard but reports of various committees.

Under the circumstances I instructed the king's printer to accept orders for copies of speeches as contained in Hansard only, and to charge therefor the actual cost of printing.

Mr. KNOWLES:

May I, Mr. Speaker, as the one who raised this question of privilege, just say a word?

No.

Mr. SPEAKER:

The hon. member knows he may put questions, but when he puts a question he may not make a statement.

Mr. KNOWLES:

May I ask the Secretary of State a question? Will he himself, or will he have some member of the government, arrange for a meeting of the debates committee, so that this matter can be gone into and a decision reached on behalf of the House of Commons as a whole?

Mr. COLDWELL:

May I ask a supplementary question of the Secretary of State? I agree with what he said, that there should be no deletions or alterations in the Hansard report; but may I suggest that it would be well to call a meeting of the debates committee. I think that would be a much more satisfactory way of reviewing the matter. I have forgotten who the chairman of the committee is, but perhaps the minister would use his good offices to get the chairman to call the committee together.

Mr. GIBSON (Hamilton West):

I think any member of the committee on debates can call a meeting.

Mr. COLDWELL:

We have been informed that the only way a private member can get the committee together is by putting a motion on the order paper. Such a motion would go to the foot of the list, and therefore would be quite ineffectual in meeting the situation.

Mr. GRAYDON:

In theory what the minister says about calling the committee together is quite correct. In practice it is anything but correct. Actually the government has to give the green light for committees to be set up. I think it is a simple matter for the minister to do it.

Mr. SPEAKER:

Order. I would call the attention of hon. members to the fact that the committees have not been appointed.

Mr. KNOWLES:

Yes, they have been.

Mr. SPEAKER:

I wish to apologize to the house. For the first time, I believe, I have made a misstatement.

Hear, hear.

Mr. SPEAKER:

I said to the house that committees had not yet been appointed. As hon. members know, it is the practice to appoint committees after the vote on the address in reply. This year, however, the appointment was made before that time. Therefore I must make that correction; and I must add that I am grateful that no one registered an appeal from my statement.

Hon. LIONEL CHEVRIER (Minister of Transport):

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, and for several days before, some concern was expressed in the house with respect to the shortage of refrigerator cars in the maritime provinces, particularly in Prince Edward Island1. The hon. member for Queens (Mr. McLure) asked a question, as did also the senior member for Halifax (Mr. Isnor). The hon. member for Prince (Mr. MacNaught) has written me a letter, and I have replied to him outlining the situation. I would have no objection to tabling the letter.

Oh, oh.

Mr. CASSELMAN:

Don't establish a precedent.