Mr. GRAYDON:

Who was the lawyer?

Mr. ST. LAURENT: Does my hon. friend wish me to state his name here? I have no objection to doing so.

Mr. GRAYDON:

I suppose the public would like to know who he is.

Mr. ST. LAURENT: If the hon. member wishes me to state his name, I have nothing to withhold. But I do not see that it would be of any assistance to the public generally. Perhaps the hon. member will think that over, but if he insists I will state it.

Mr. GRAYDON:

You had better give his name.

Mr. ST. LAURENT: Then I will. It was Mr. Leonard Brockington, who is a gentleman usually recognized as a lawyer of high standing.

It was further suggested that certain articles included in the collection of Polish treasures which it was claimed were the property of individuals, churches, and other institutions, should, at the end of the five year period, be returned to their beneficial owners. Officials of the Department of External Affairs stated that the department could not recognize any other than the present Polish government as entitled to property which had been brought here and entered as belonging to the Polish state, but nevertheless they undertook to explore with this lawyer the terms upon which agreement might be reached and the Polish legation in Ottawa was informed of this development. Eventually, after prolonged discussions concerning which the Polish legation was kept constantly informed, a proposal was submitted informally to the Polish authorities for their consideration. According to the terms of this proposal the Canadian government would have accepted custody of the art treasures for a period of five years, defraying during that time the costs of insurance, maintenance and transportation.

The Canadian authorities had no particular desire to accept custody of the treasures, nor to bear the expenses involved in holding them for a period of five years. They offered to do so merely because this appeared to be a necessary condition of securing an agreement whereby the treasures might be restored to the Polish government without further dispute. It was hoped that the government's willingness to accept this responsibility would be regarded by the Polish government as an evidence of the good intentions of the Canadian authorities and of their desire to assist in settling the matter.

Polish Art Treasures

The Polish government rejected this basis of settlement as, of course, it was fully entitled to do. No Canadian official at any time suggested that the Polish government should choose to settle this question by agreement if it would prefer to seek a solution otherwise. The charge d'affaires of the Polish legation subsequently addressed a further note to us on September 29, 1947. This note was accompanied by a statement in which the circumstances leading to the loss of the treasures were outlined and in which a formal request was made that legal proceedings be initiated to apprehend those responsible for the removal of the treasures. A request was also made for action by the police authorities to locate the objects themselves. The statement further requested that steps be taken to prevent the missing articles or any part of them from being removed from Canada.

I replied to his communication that, while the government of Canada had no responsibility for the safekeeping of these treasures, it had been decided, in order to assist the government of Poland in the recovery of the missing objects, and since the efforts to bring about the return of the treasures by agreement have not been successful, to request the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to undertake a search in an effort to ascertain the location of the missing articles.

As regards the request that legal proceedings be initiated against those in possession, or thought to be in possession, of the missing property, the Polish charge d'affaires was advised that the government of Poland was at perfect liberty to proceed itself in this matter through the Canadian courts. '

In the note to the Polish charge d'affaires attention was also drawn to the inaccurate statements concerning the treasures which had been appearing in the Polish press, some of which were attributed to officials of the foreign ministry. It was pointed out that the Department of External Affairs had been, glad to lend its assistance to the representative of Poland in Canada in order to secure the earliest possible return of the treasures to Poland. It was therefore regretted that these efforts had been incorrectly interpreted to the people of Poland and the hope was expressed that steps would be taken by the Polish government to correct misapprehensions which had arisen as a result of reports originating in Poland.

What was done afterwards appears from the following statement issued to the press last night by the commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police:

On December 21, 1947, the Minister of External Affairs requested the Minister of Justice to

instruct the Commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to ascertain the then location of the missing Polish art treasures and further, if the missing articles were located, to endeavour to keep the same under surveillance until a decision could be reached as to what action might be taken by the Polish legation.

The Commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police was so instructed and in January, 1948, was in a position to report that a portion of the treasure consisting of 23 trunks and one box had been located stored in l'Hotel Dieu, Quebec City, a hospital and religious institution. The trunks and box had previously been stored in the Redemptorist monastery at Ste. Anne de Beaupre, Que.

When information was received by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police that the articles had been removed to the Hotel Dieu, a competent and experienced non-commissioned officer, Corporal J. R. R. Oarriere, accompanied by another member1 of the police, Constable Houle, interviewed the Mother Superior in charge of the institution, stating that they had been requested to locate the missing Polish art treasures.

The Mother Superior on learning the purpose of the visit quite readily informed the members of the police that the treasures were still in the basement of the convent andi offered to show them to the members. The offer was accepted and the room containing the treasures was visited by the two members of the police, accompanied by the Mother 'Superior and her assistant.

It was the Mother 'Superior who directed the police through the cloister, although in fact the police offered to proceed' to the basement by an outside entrance.

The purpose of the interview was to seek information and the R.C.M.P. made no demand to enter, much less was there any suggestion that they had a right 'to search. They were received most courteously by the Mother Superior.

At a later date Inspector Rene J. Belec again interviewed the Mother Superior and was received in a most co-operative and understanding manner.

The police were fully aware that there was a dispute as to the rightful ownership or possession of the articles and the Commissioner of the police had specifically instructed that they should be treated as missing property and that no demand could be made to produce the property nor if located should any seizure action be taken.

As to the statement to which I referred yesterday as having been handed to me just before I came into the house and as being so extraordinary in its terms and inaccurate in its assertions that I wished to ascertain whether or not it really had been made before dealing with it, I have now found that it was made and I must repeat that it contains many assertions which are not true. Thus in the first paragraph it is said that a short while ago members of the federal police without search warrants and in an illegal manner, forced their entrance not only into the convent of the Sisters of the Hotel Dieu but also into their cloister.

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Polish Art Treasures

This is an untrue statement and hon. members will have seen in this morning's papers that the Reverend Mother Superior of the convent has given it a dignified but no less unqualified denial. I think her statement should also be made a part of their record. As reported in the press, it is as follows:

A few months ago we were asked to receive from a very respectable gentleman of Polish nationality and to safeguard parcels containing, we were then told, 'articles of 'art and value.

In ordler to oblige we accepted the task and the packages were brought here. Things remained: thus for a while and we took all care possible of the deposit in- our custody to ensure their safety.

During the month of February another gentleman, also of Polish nationality, under' the title of "agent" for the Polish republic, claimed that said parcels should be entrusted to him.

Informed of this task, the first person, who had put the deposit in our charge, strictly forbade ua to give the said parcels away; he strengthened! his order by reminding us that according to law we were not allowed to remit the deposit in question'-a deposit in trust-to anyone but himself, ,and ordered the removal of the parcels to the provincial museum.

We then addressed ourselves to the Prime Minister1 of the province of Quebec, who consented to the transportation- of the aforementioned 'articles to the museum. We believed the museum a safe place for the valuables.

We are willing to admit that our religious community had no reasons at all to permit a trial between the two gentlemen in question to implicate us. The provincial government, on its part, had told us of its intention to conform itself to the tribunal's decision.

We wiant it noted and understood' that there was never a "saisie" (seizure) in our monastery by the provincial government, and that the deposit was never at any time under the protection of the R.C.M.P.

We accepted the deposit in good faith and we returned it according to instructions received from the person v-ho had entrusted the valuables to our care in the first place.

That is the end of the statement which I was very happy to read this morning in the newspapers and about which I can assure the house I had no previous intimation. The suggestion in Mr. Duplessis' statement that there was a violation of the cloister is quite ridiculous. His statement further says:

We are much grieved that the federal authorities of our country, particularly the ministers representing the province of Quebec in. the country's government, made themselves the collaborators of Stalin and his Polish government to the point that they ordered their police to ignore the laws -and to violate the cloister of that noble order.

When one notes that this clumsy but deliberate attempt to smear the ministers representing the province of Quebec in the country's government, and remembers that he is preparing for a provincial election, one can only

deplore that Mr. Duplessis should expect such tactics to win for him from well informed sources anything but contempt.

Mr. BURTON:

The minister probably now knows that others may feel the same as he does when they are unjustly accused.

Mr. ST. LAURENT: I am not sure that I understand fully the purport of the hon. member's interjection, but as I understand it, I thank him for it. I am glad to hear that he agrees that not much else but what I have said could be expected from such a course.

Mr. BURTON:

What I was saying was that we also do not like these accusations when they come to us unduly from other sources.

Mr. ST. LAURENT: The statement goes on to say that the government of the province of Quebec "has seized and impounded these treasures." This is what the federal government had been asked to do but had refused to do, informing those who made the request that in this country the executive government did not seize and impound objects to which there were disputing claimants; that all we could do would be to ascertain if possible where the objects were and the disputing claimants would then have to resort to the courts for an adjudication upon their rights if they saw fit to do so.

Now whatever may be the views of individuals with respect to the present government of Poland, the fact is that it is and it has been for over two years the legal government of that country recognized as such by all civilized nations, and the federal authorities have never felt and do not feel that they are acting as "accomplices" of that government in saying to it, as they would say to the government of any other sovereign state, that it is free to resort to the courts of Canada to assert and enforce any rights it may have as such to .property actually situate in Canada.

Mr. JOHN BRACKEN (Leader of the Opposition):

Mr. Speaker, I am sure that all members of the house will regret that there has been any loss of articles from the place of storage provided by this government for treasures from another country. We also regret it if there has been any misunderstanding thus created between these two nations through this loss or the movement of these articles. I wish to ask only one question. It arises from three statements of fact which I put down as the minister spoke.

The first was that the government accepted or allowed to be stored at the experimental farm about the year 1940 these Polish treasures. The second was, as we are all aware, that in

Polish Art Treasures

1945 a new government assumed power in Poland, which new government was recognized by this government as the legitimate government of Poland at that time. The third fact was that in 1946 this government was advised that certain of these articles had disappeared from the place of storage at the experimental farm.

So far as I am concerned the question I intend to ask is the only pertinent one. If through any action on our part, even though we took no responsibility for these treasures, if through any sin of omission or commission some of these articles have been lost, we regret it and perhaps deserve some censure. My question is this: Were any special steps taken after 1940 to protect the treasures stored at the experimental farm? Particularly after the change in government in Poland in 1945 were any special steps taken to see that they did not disappear?

Mr. ST. LAURENT: No other steps were taken than those I have indicated in the statement I made to the house.

Mr. J. G. DIEFENBAKER (Lake Centre):

Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that the minister admits that the mounted police were used for civil purposes, he can have no objection to producing the reports given by Corporal Carriere and Constable Houle, either to himself as minister of external affairs or to the Minister of Justice, and I would ask whether or not those reports will be tabled.

Mr. ST. LAURENT: I received no other written report than the one I included in the statement I have read to the house. I was informed orally when the information came to the police that some of these treasures had been removed to the Hotel Dieu, and I immediately had that information conveyed to the Polish ministry.

Mr. DIEFENBAKER:

Who gave the minister the information?

Mr. ST. LAURENT: The information was given to me, in fact, over the telephone by the deputy minister of justice.

Mr. DIEFENBAKER:

Then I would ask the Minister of Justice whether he would produce these reports, because they deal with a civil matter, and the mounted police do not deal with civil matters.

Right Hon. J. L. ILSLEY (Minister of Justice) :

I shall be glad to give consideration to my hon. friend's request and give him an answer tomorrow. I am strongly under the impression that police reports to the commissioner, if there are any, are not under any circumstances producible in this house.

Mr. DIEFENBAKER:

Mr. Speaker, if I might add this word, ordinarily that would be true if the police reports had to do with criminal matters.

Mr. SPEAKER:

Order. I cannot permit any debate on this question.

Mr. A. L. SMITH (Calgary West):

Mr. Speaker, may I ask the minister of external affairs a supplementary question arising out of the statement he made? I am merely trying to understand what the real position is. After the articles were removed from the experimental farm, according to his statement a gentleman came and asked the Mother Superior to store them at this place in the province of Quebec. Was that person

we have not his name and I do not want it- representing the old Polish government, or have we now moved into the position where it is just some individual who made the request?

Mr. ST. LAURENT: I can only state what I understand to be the fact. I understand the gentleman in question had been connected with the Polish government at the time the deposits had originally been made and that he was the same person. I am not in a position to say what happened in the meantime as to the connection between himself and the Polish government in exile in London.

Mr. SMITH (Calgary West):

I take it the assumption is that he was acting for the Polish government in exile. Is that the minister's assumption?

Mr. ST. LAURENT: We repeatedly said we could not, after the recognition of the Polish government of the republic of Poland, recognize anyone else but its accredited representatives as speaking on behalf of the Polish state.