March 16, 1948

CCF

Robert Ross (Roy) Knight

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. KNIGHT:

He does not say, and I am afraid that that is the difficulty so far as the regulations are concerned. As I have indicated he lives in a house which is far from modern and which is located seven blocks from a street car, and then he must take a fifteen minute walk to his work. This man had four years service in the second world war. In the letter he gives some personal details which I can leave out, but he underlines this question at the end of this letter: What is being done to remedy this situation? I presume I can write back to him and quote the words of the parliamentaiy assistant and say, "Nothing."

Topic:   TRANSITIONAL MEASURES ACT, 1947 CONTINUATION OP CERTAIN ORDERS AND REGULATIONS
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PC

Lawrence Wilton Skey

Progressive Conservative

Mr. SKEY:

Mr. Chairman, I should like to give support to the principles put forward: by the hon. member for Broadview when he called the government's attention to the situation which exists in the larger cities of Canada. The housing situation is crucial; it is Canada's No.2 problem. In my opinion it comes closely behind communism; in fact it is creating communism. Dissatisfaction and discontent are being created because of the housing regulations and restrictions and the lack of accommodation.

There is a great principle at stake which I know the Minister of Justice will recognize. The federal government have taken the responsibility of putting on these, controls. Any person who has knowledge of the situation agrees that they have resulted in a restriction of housing and a restriction of building, especially for rent. The government have imposed these controls and it is their policy. They have refused to acknowledge the free enterprise system in so far as housing is concerned, and therefore there is only one other course of action they can take and that is to enter into the housing field themselves.

Topic:   TRANSITIONAL MEASURES ACT, 1947 CONTINUATION OP CERTAIN ORDERS AND REGULATIONS
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LIB

Robert Wellington Mayhew (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. MAYHEW:

I know the hon. gentleman would like to be right. He says that these regulations have affected the building of houses, but I would tell him that no house built since January 1947 is under control in any way, shape or form, either as to the amount of rent paid or the tenancy.

Topic:   TRANSITIONAL MEASURES ACT, 1947 CONTINUATION OP CERTAIN ORDERS AND REGULATIONS
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PC

Lawrence Wilton Skey

Progressive Conservative

Mr. SKEY:

I am glad to have the parliamentary assistant correct me, but the fact remains that there is a great deal of uncertainty in the housing field. The number oi houses built since January 1, 1947, is not very

Transitional Measures Act

large and I would imagine that ninety-eight per cent of the houses in Canada are still under control to some extent.

I was developing the argument that if the government insists upon the continued control of housing and rentals there is only one course open to them if this problem is to be solved. They must either build houses or subsidize those wrho can build them, namely, the provinces and the municipalities. I repeat that if the government intend to continue housing controls they must subsidize the provinces and the municipalities in their housing program. Their policies have already driven the two central provinces of Ontario and Quebec into the housing field, the two provinces which have been denied, through the government's mistaken policies, the grants in aid which are paid to the other seven provinces. The two central and most populous provinces have been driven into the housing field by the policies of this government, and I say that this government should today start to return to Ontario and Quebec the moneys collected in lieu of grants, so that they can be distributed by the governments of these two provinces through the municipalities, chiefly Montreal, Quebec, Toronto, Hamilton, London, Windsor and Ottawa-

Topic:   TRANSITIONAL MEASURES ACT, 1947 CONTINUATION OP CERTAIN ORDERS AND REGULATIONS
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PC

Thomas Ashmore Kidd

Progressive Conservative

Mr. KIDD:

And Kingston.

Topic:   TRANSITIONAL MEASURES ACT, 1947 CONTINUATION OP CERTAIN ORDERS AND REGULATIONS
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PC

Lawrence Wilton Skey

Progressive Conservative

Mr. SKEY:

And Kingston, to be allocated to a municipal housing program. If the government are going to collect these moneys which are due to the provinces they should return them forthwith to those provinces which have been driven into the housing field.

Topic:   TRANSITIONAL MEASURES ACT, 1947 CONTINUATION OP CERTAIN ORDERS AND REGULATIONS
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

Who would have the corporation tax in those provinces under my hon. friend's plan?

Topic:   TRANSITIONAL MEASURES ACT, 1947 CONTINUATION OP CERTAIN ORDERS AND REGULATIONS
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PC

Lawrence Wilton Skey

Progressive Conservative

Mr. SKEY:

The federal government is now collecting a portion of the tax in the event of those two provinces signing an agreement with the dominion, and it is withholding that amount until then. That is one of the reasons for the government's surplus. Isn't there some $180,000,000 involved?

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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

My hon. friend surely realizes that under the present plan the corporation tax collected on corporations in provinces other than the two central provinces is 35 per cent, while it is only 30 per cent in the two central provinces.

Topic:   TRANSITIONAL MEASURES ACT, 1947 CONTINUATION OP CERTAIN ORDERS AND REGULATIONS
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PC

Lawrence Wilton Skey

Progressive Conservative

Mr. SKEY:

What would five per cent of the corporation tax amount to in Ontario and Quebec?

Topic:   TRANSITIONAL MEASURES ACT, 1947 CONTINUATION OP CERTAIN ORDERS AND REGULATIONS
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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

I could get it. It would be very great.

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PC

Lawrence Wilton Skey

Progressive Conservative

Mr. SKEY:

It would not be equal to the amount which would be payable to those provinces under a signed agreement with the federal government, would it?

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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

I doubt whether it would be quite as much as that, but it might be more.

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PC

Lawrence Wilton Skey

Progressive Conservative

Mr. SKEY:

I gravely doubt it.

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LIB

James Lorimer Ilsley (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. ILSLEY:

It is up to them.

Topic:   TRANSITIONAL MEASURES ACT, 1947 CONTINUATION OP CERTAIN ORDERS AND REGULATIONS
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PC

Lawrence Wilton Skey

Progressive Conservative

Mr. SKEY:

Oh, no; it is up to the federal government to give the provinces taxation rights in certain fields. However, I shall not get into an argument with the minister over that at the moment.

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LIB

Robert Wellington Mayhew (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. MAYHEW:

Mr. Chairman, what we are considering now is P.C. 9029, wartime leasehold regulations as amended. There will be ample opportunity under the Department of Reconstruction and Supply to discuss on three or four items the question of housing when the minister will be here to answer, and I suggest that we should defer this discussion until then. We would like to see all the lumber go into the building of houses. It would relieve the situation. I can only assure my hon. friend that rent control will be prosecuted with the utmost intensity and justice and sympathy in order to be fair to everybody. I cannot promise more than that and I do not think you can get more out of it.

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LIB

William Henry Golding (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN:

The point raised by the parliamentary assistant is in order. The committee should deal specifically with the wartime leasehold regulations.

Topic:   TRANSITIONAL MEASURES ACT, 1947 CONTINUATION OP CERTAIN ORDERS AND REGULATIONS
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PC

Lawrence Wilton Skey

Progressive Conservative

Mr. SKEY:

I was endeavouring to develop the point, Mr. Chairman, that these restrictions are aggravating the housing shortage and will continue to do so. I fully acknowledge the difficulty in which the federal government is placed today and the difficulties of both landlords and tenants. Coming from an urban constituency where the problem is very acute, I am perfectly aware of the difficulties, which work hardships on both sides. I am not arguing for just one side, but I am saying that it is the continuation of controls that makes necessary a housing policy sponsored and financed by the federal government. The parliamentary assistant has mentioned the minister of reconstruction. I was just coming to him.

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LIB

Robert Wellington Mayhew (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. MAYHEW:

Wait until he comes in.

Topic:   TRANSITIONAL MEASURES ACT, 1947 CONTINUATION OP CERTAIN ORDERS AND REGULATIONS
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March 16, 1948