Mr. Fraser:

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Central Mortgage does come under the matter of controls, because Central Mortgage has absolute authority over priorities for building projects. If a municipality issues a permit for the construction of a theatre or any other building it must get its priority certificate from Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation. That is the only way they can build, and that is why there is a shortage of cement, nails and everything else required for veterans' houses. That should be and is under this control act; therefore it can be discussed under this item.

Mr. Fleming:

May I add that one of the orders sought to be continued by the measure the Minister of Justice is asking leave to introduce is the order under which priorities are issued by the priorities officer.

Mr. Garson:

Speaking to the point of order, while the observations of the last two hon. members are quite correct, as I understood them, the hon. member who has the floor was not discussing the application of any of these priorities by Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation. He was discussing the internal administration of the corporation-

Mr. Lockhart:

I was leading up to priorities.

Mr. Garson:

-which comes under a statute of its own. That discussion would be quite irrelevant to the matter now before the house.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

I believe what has been said by the hon. member for Peter-

Transitional Measures Act borough West (Mr. Fraser) and the hon. member for Eglinton (Mr. Fleming) is correct; but as the Minister of Justice (Mr. Garson) has pointed out, the hon. member for Lincoln (Mr. Lockhart) was not discussing these priorities. He was discussing the whole question of the internal management of Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation, which does not come within the scope of the resolution. As a matter of fact it is a corporation which is responsible to another minister entirely. I think I have made my point clear; and the hon. member for Lincoln has stated that he is going to lead up to the question of priorities.

Mr. Lockhart:

I do not want to transgress against any ruling you may make, nor do I want to transgress against the rules of the house, but I am following along the line of what my leader said so definitely in this house in regard to bureaucratic controls, and I want to point out that this is one of the things which are causing considerable concern under those controls.

I have attempted to show the nature of the thing about which I am complaining. I am not blaming the minister for this, because probably he is only repeating what someone else has told him, since he has just come into the department. However, yesterday I asked if it would not be possible to get answers to these questions, to find out what were the traveling expenses-

Mr. Garson:

My hon. friend persists in following a line of argument which I think is quite inadmissible on this resolution.

Mr. Lockhart:

We are being asked to continue these controls, and Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation is building rental houses in my city at the present time. I am showing the procedure that is followed under the bureaucratic controls that are in effect today.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

I understood the hon. member was discussing the management of Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation, the cost of operating the corporation, the salaries paid and so on. I do not think that could be considered by any stretch of the imagination to come under this resolution;. I would not object if the hon. member made passing reference to what is being done by the corporation, but I do not think it would be in order to have a detailed discussion on that point at the present time. That may well come up on a subsequent occasion.

Mr. Lockhart:

Well, Mr. Speaker, I am not going to pursue this matter, but will conclude with my own observations in regard to what

Transitional Measures Act has happened. Rental houses are urgently-needed but, as the hon. member for Peterborough West (Mr. Fraser) has said, materials are being diverted to the construction of hospitals, bank buildings and so on. I say in all fairness to the Minister of Labour (Mr. Mitchell) that in the cities of Welland and Niagara Falls, where houses are so urgently needed, it will not appear very well to see an item in the estimates of a quarter of a million dollars for a public building in one city.

Mr. Mitchell:

I can only say to my hon. friend that I hope we get the public building.

Mr. Lockhart:

Go ahead and get the public building for the quarter of a million dollars, if you wish; there is still a terrific need for houses. Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation is one of the crown companies responsible for the production of houses, but they have not advanced at all in the last year or two.

I have spoken of bureaucratic controls. I have asked the minister for the information I required, but he tells me I cannot have it. I merely recite this to show the type of bureaucracy that seems to be developing more and more in this country. Here we have an omnibus resolution covering things which have nothing to do with a war emergency; yet we have to submit to this sort of thing. I am just asking the Minister of Reconstruction and Supply (Mr. Winters) why I cannot get information the people of my constituency are requesting. This resolution will continue control over such things as fruits and vegetables. With all these matters brought under an omnibus resolution I do not know where this will ever end. So I say there is only one thing to do and that is abandon the sort of control we have at present, except in extremely emergent cases.

Mr. Thatcher:

Oh, they have done that now.

Mr. Lockhart:

A little more wool-gathering. I will not pursue this point further, but I should like the minister to be good enough to explain why this information cannot be made available. The minister has suggested that the report of Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation, which is responsible for a great deal of housing construction, may be referred to some committee, and that when this is done I may be able to get the information I have requested. However, I would ask the minister to give me that information now.

Motion (Mr. Casselman): "That this question be now put", agreed to.

Mr. Dickey:

I was paired with the hon. member for Digby-Annapolis-Kings (Mr. Nowlan). Had I voted, I would have voted for the motion.

(Translation):

Mr. Gagnon:

Mr. Speaker, I was paired with the hon. member for Terrebonne (Mr. Bertrand). Had I voted, I would have voted against the motion.

Mr. Chapdelaine:

Mr. Speaker, I was

paired with the hon. member for Lotbiniere (Mr. Lapointe). Had I voted, I would have voted against the motion.

(Text):

The house went into committee, Mr. Macdonald (Brantford City) in the chair.

Mr. Drew:

Will the minister now explain the extent to which any of the twelve orders are to be varied or changed in any way?

Mr. Garson:

During the course of my remarks in the debate yesterday it was pointed out to me by the hon. member for Peterborough West and the hon. member for Nanaimo that at this stage it was improper to refer to any of the provisions of the bill, and that that could be done only when the bill was brought down. It would be difficult for hon. members to follow any argument until the bill is brought down. Subject to that difficulty, may I say that the intention is not to effect any modification in any of the existing orders in council. I think that is what the leader of the opposition means. When the bill is brought down it will be seen that it goes somewhat further than that. If I may

Transitional Measures Act be permitted a slightly improper allusion to the bill not yet before the members, may I say that it will provide that not only will the orders stand as they are but also that, notwithstanding anything in the act, the wartime prices and trade board shall not exercise any powers with regard to the fixing of prices or with regard to the launching of prosecutions with respect to any goods and services other than those which are already referred to in existing orders in council. Therefore, not only will these orders in council not be changed but it will not be permissible, under the terms of the bill, to pass any more orders in council or board orders dealing with goods or services other than those under control when this bill becomes law. Perhaps that answers my hon. friend's question.