Carried.

Mr. McCusker:

I should like to have an

answer to that question.

Mr. Gregg:

The census is to be taken next year and we shall have for the first time in Canada a real picture of the veteran population. The bureau of statistics have agreed to do that. Until then I am sure I would not be able to answer the question correctly.

Mr. McLure:

This is only a small item, but I should like the minister to explain what unemployment assistance is. Large amounts have been gone over tonight. For instance, there is an item for temporary employment. We have already voted about $25 million without asking any questions. But I should like to know what this small item is.

Mr. Gregg:

This vote is a traditional one. It has been in the estimates for about twenty years. One of these days perhaps we shall merge it with something else. It has played a useful part, and it provides for controlled assistance, generally in the form of cash, to provide shelter, lodging, fuel and food to veterans in the following classifications who are unemployed and in necessitous circumstances:

(1) Veterans who served with the Canadian forces during world war I and who are in receipt of a small disability pension under the Canadian Pension Act. Perhaps this will be some satisfaction to the hon. member for Vancouver-Quadra because some of those he mentioned may receive assistance here.

(2) Veterans who served with His Majesty's forces other than Canadian during world war I or with forces of His Majesty's allies during world war I who are in receipt of a small disability pension and were resident in Canada on or befo.re December 1, 1924. Under category B this little fund will now be relieved by the effect of my bill that went through the other day. I am sorry, but if

the hon. member for Queens asked me a direct question, I did not catch it. May I ask if he would repeat it.

Mr. McLure:

I was just asking what this amount was for, and the minister has given practically a general view of it. How much of this was paid out last year? Under what terms does a veteran make application for this assistance? It is something new. I do not know whether or not any of it is being paid out in my province. I should just like to find out whether it is or not; and if not, why not.

Mr. Gregg:

Each district is familiar with this little emergency fund; and from time to time there come to their attention veterans within this category who are in need of assistance immediately; and amounts from this fund are used. For the year 1949-50 a total of $29,964 was utilized. Of that, $3,848 was in the way of cash assistance to veterans in need in the categories I have mentioned; $240 was to assist in the purchase of clothing. The number of veterans involved was 1,068.

Are these veterans who cannot qualify under unemployment insurance or is this a supplement to unemployment insurance?

Mr. Gregg:

Yes. These veterans would not be able to qualify under unemployment insurance, no.

Mr. Gillis:

Is that fund administered

provincially, and who administers it?

Mr. Gregg:

Our district office in Halifax, Saint John, Charlottetown and so on.

Mr. Gillis:

You have not the break-down of that by provinces, have you?

Mr. Gregg:

No, I have not.

Mr. Hansell:

The minister will have to tell me whether or not I am speaking under the correct item. If I should come in on a later item, I shall be glad to defer discussion until then. But I have a case which might be typical of several others. It is that of a war veteran who sought the benefits of the loans offered to veterans for machinery to run his farm. This particular veteran had only put in 259 days and his service was in the western hemisphere. Evidently he was not able to get the loan. In a letter to the minister I explained the situation and I received a reply from one of his officials who evidently answered the inquiry owing to the minister's

absence from his office. The answer I received was the report that was given on this young man's case. That was not the answer I wanted, because the young chap himself gave me the same report, which he had also received some little while before.

The regulations were quoted, and evidently the young veteran has to put in a certain length of time before he can qualify. I am wondering whether that is simply a hard and fast rule or whether the rule could not be made flexible enough to take in deserving cases. According to this young man's interview with me, he was not entirely responsible for his early discharge. He wanted to remain in the forces and he also wanted to go overseas. I must confess the young man feels that perhaps he has been discriminated against a little for some reason or other. I am wondering whether the minister would agree to look into this case further to see if something can be done for this young man. He does not want a grant; he wants a loan. It would appear that he is able to pay back a loan. At present he is residing on land that he is farming. It looks good, and there appears to me to be no risk on the part of the government to grant the loan to this young man under the regulations, if it is possible for him to get under the present regulations.

If there is no risk taken I do not see why he, as well as others who may have been in the army a week longer than he was, are not able to receive the benefit of the loan. I know that in all of these things you have to draw the line somewhere; but in a case like this of a young chap, who after all offered himself and was in the forces, it does seem to me that he should be able to get the benefit of this. As a matter of fact, it is not a benefit; it is simply an accommodation.

I am wondering whether the regulations could be made more flexible, or whether the minister will not look a little further into this case, with a view to trying to accommodate this particular individual.

Mr. Gregg:

It is not a matter of the regulations; it is in the act. A great deal of thought was given to this by those who worked on it here and framed the act. The result of their deliberations was: for the veteran who had service overseas, yes; if he were a pensioner on any amount, yes; if he had 365 days, in the western hemisphere, yes. As my hon. friend says, they felt that there had to be a fair cutoff day somewhere, and one year appeared to be sound. Bear in mind that service of less than that time did entitle the veteran to some re-establishment credit for his service, so he was not left out entirely. But for the purpose of this act it was considered that either 365

Supply-Veterans Affairs days, a pension or service overseas was the governing factor. It is there in the act, and I think that it has met with general acceptance. I feel sorry, as my hon. friend does, for those that we have had to turn down. We have not granted any at all under that 365 days. I have one on my desk now for 363 days which I have to turn down; so there it is.

Mr. Harkness:

The travelling expenses under the Veterans Land Act, soldier settlement board, seem to be pretty high. I see it is estimated at $600,000 this year. Last year it was $550,000. I was wondering whether it was necessary to have that amount for travelling expenses. I do not know how much of this $550,000 was spent last year. I would like the minister to tell us that. In my own experience with this I think that there is probably a great deal more running around the country than is entirely necessary.

During the last year, for example, there was a sort of garden competition held for small holdings. I know that the supervisors and others ran all over the country looking at those gardens to see which one had made the greatest improvement. A prize was given for the garden which showed the greatest improvement. As a matter of fact, these people went around in threes. I happen to know of three of the supervisors who went around to the men's places looking at their gardens. They spent considerable time there. Then they went on to somebody else's place. They spent a great deal of time doing that. It seems to me that the travelling expenses incurred as a result of these people doing that amounted to a large amount. I do not know how many of them did it. It must have been a large number across Canada as a whole. The cost of that was extensive. I doubt very much whether any good result came from it. This is one instance of the way in which considerable amounts of money are being, if not wasted, at any rate very close to it, in the way of travelling expenses under the Veterans Land Act.

Mr. Gregg:

To answer my hon. friends' question, last year the sum of $574,340 was spent in travelling expenses. It is a large amount. I think it will be realized that those who followed the experiences of the soldier settlement board from 1920 on, and saw the losses incurred by the treasury and the taxpayer on account of veterans being placed on land and left to a great extent to fend for themselves under circumstances that they did not understand, losing their morale in many instances, and coming to the point on two occasions where these loans had to be cut off, or substantial portions of them, will not object. We are now in the process of clearing up these problem cases at the latter

Supply-Veterans Affairs end. It was determined that this time men going on the land should have follow-up assistance.

I can assure my hon. friend that the directors, and field supervisors in Alberta and elsewhere, do not enjoy driving their cars out over the hills; they do not do it as a matter of pleasure. But so far-and we are not going to brag too soon-the Veterans Land Act plan both for the farm and the small holdings is moving forward with a good deal of success.

My hon. friend spoke of the competition last year. I am not going to make any apologies either for the competition itself, the prizes, the running around or the publicity with regard to that competition. It will be remembered that two years ago it was my duty to bring to this house in estimates a demand for large sums of money for what I was pleased to call remedial purposes. What it was for was to try and fix. up quickly built structures on our subdivisions across Canada, some of which were bad, but often worse in the minds of those who lived in them, because they were discouraged.

By the efforts of the director and the staff with the people living on those subdivisions, that phase ended and eventually they achieved a measure of enthusiasm for brightening up their property, and growing some garden on it, and as a result of the competition held last year as applied to the small holdings and subdivisions I can tell my hon. friend that the whole standard of the homes on those subdivisions has been greatly raised. So much so that this year we are carrying on a similar scheme of competition as between small holdings which are independently located, not on subdivisions. On the other hand, we will continue to make as large economies as we can in the travelling expenses here, commensurate with service to the veterans.

Item stands.

Progress reported.