Mr. Fulton:

On division.

Motion agreed to on division.

Mr. Jean Francois Pouliot (Temiscouata):

Before the motion is put, I should like to know if members of parliament who have grievances on behalf of returned men will have an opportunity of submitting their cases to the committee in order to try to get some help for these men. It seems that the pension commission is helpless, and I can say the same thing for the commission on allowances. I have every sympathy for the Minister of Veterans Affairs (Mr. Lapointe). He is an able gentleman, and a personal friend of mine. The members of the pension commission, and the members of the commission for allowances, are procrastinating. It is useless to argue the case of any soldier with them. I have some pitiful cases, and it is impossible to reach the heart of these commission members in discussing these problems which are of vital importance to the soldiers and their families.

Will the members of the house who do not belong to the committee have an opportunity of appearing before the committee with these files? Some of them are voluminous.

The pension commission seems to take it for granted that in some cases the soldiers suffered from disabilities before enlistment. I have one case in particular in which I was told the soldier was suffering from heart trouble before his enlistment, and that his five years of active military service had not increased his disability. I wrote to the department that it was absurd, and I was informed a month later that he was not suffering from heart trouble. This was an example.

Another case is that of a soldier, number 597, of the first war. He was in service during the whole of the war. He was overseas for at least four years, if not five. He was a big fellow, with the appearance of a strong man. I could not get anything for him except some treatment at the hospital which did him no good. He enlisted again in the second war, and it is impossible to get a pension for him. There are other cases where soldiers have a small pension, and there is the allowance board, which does nothing to give them an opportunity to live as decent men are supposed to live.

I have many cases which I could cite. The doctors are all fools except perhaps one or two. I keep in reserve some cases of murder which I have already mentioned in the house-murder by the army doctors of the province of Ontario and of the province of Quebec. There was another one who escaped in the province of New Brunswick. He had protection from the high-ranking people in the medical service of the army. Some army doctors are good. Some others are rotten. This is one of the reasons why I object so greatly to a program of health insurance, because those army doctors will have some kind of preference. I think of the district medical officer at Montreal. Who is the district medical officer at Montreal? He is a complete failure with regard to medical qualifications. What is his record as a medical officer? He was overseas on a Cook's tour for a month or two, and he was to come to Ottawa. I strongly protested at the time to the then hon. member for Halifax, Mr. Macdonald-who was the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of National Defence- and to Walter Tucker, who helped me a great deal when he was parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Veterans Affairs.

I am fighting the case of the soldiers who cannot expect any justice from the pension

Reports of Committees commission or from the allowance board. One day I decided to send a motion to the Clerk of the House, but unf ortunately it was not signed, and according to the rules it did not appear on the order paper. The motion called for the abolition of the pension commission and the allowance board. So long as the soldiers get no benefits from these boards, what is the use of paying big salaries to these men who give relief by a dropper to the soldier?

I will ask the minister to consider the remarks I have made in the friendliest spirit to him, but I have not the same spirit with regard to these boards and commissions. They are there to earn a big salary and to do nothing. They are all alike, from Melville down. The other day when I saw him, with all his decorations, I thought of the poor devils who have such a great struggle and who cannot get any help. We have to write and write again, but we never receive a decent answer from the silly and selfish bureaucrats. I hope that there will be reform in due course and that the members who sit on the committee will be ready to defend the case of the soldier instead of lying down before such awful bureaucrats.

Mr. Speaker:

Is is the -pleasure of the house to adopt the motion?

Mr. Ross (Souris):

On division.

Mr. Speaker:

On division.

Motion agreed to on division.

On the orders of the day:

Mr. Robert Fair (Battle River):

I should like to address a question to the Minister of Veterans Affairs. Is the minister in agreement with the tirade of the hon. member for Temiscouata a few minutes ago against the war veterans allowance board and the Canadian pension commission?

Hon. Hugues Lapointe (Minister of Veterans Affairs):

In answer to my hon. friend's question I may say that I do not subscribe to the remarks made by the hon. member for Temiscouata. I do not subscribe at all to the personal remarks he directed against some members of the commission nor to his remarks as to the work done by the pension commission and the war veterans allowance board.

Mr. Pouliot:

I hope the committee will be fairer than the hon. member.