Mr. Green:

A survey of that kind would be undertaken by the administrative staff at national defence headquarters, and I submit I am quite in order in asking the question under 'this item. This item covers, for

Supply-National Defence example, the deputy minister. I believe that the deputy minister is a member of this manpower eouncil. I submit that I am in order in asking the question on this particular item. 1 would ask the minister whether that recommendation of the manpower council has been carried out by the Department of National Defence?

Mr. Claxton:

What recommendation is it?

Mr. Green:

The recommendation reads as follows:

That the department concerned should make an immediate and comprehensive study of all aspects of the national registration question.

Now that included the Department of National Defence. I would ask whether any such study has been made or is being made by the department, and if so the results thereof?

Mr. Claxton:

Such a study has been made, of course, and the results will be made known to the body which asked it, that is the advisory board on labour, when it next meets.

Mr. Green:

There will be a report on this question of a national registration made to the advisory council on manpower when it meets next week?

Mr. Claxton:

Yes.

The Deputy Chairman:

May I submit to

the hon. member that, in my opinion, this question might more properly have been asked when the general discussion took place. We are now into the detailed study of the estimates, and if we are to follow the procedure agreed upon this afternoon we will have to consider now civil salaries and wages until that detailed sum is disposed of.

Mr. Herridge:

Can the minister inform

us what numbers of these employees are men and what numbers are women, and if the proposed organization of the women's auxiliary will mean that some of these enlisted women will be utilized for this type of work?

Mr. Claxton:

No women whatever. I was

too quick in answering there: no women in the armed forces will be utilized for this kind of headquarters work. The object in recruiting women for the air force is to employ them at work such as radar, plotting, electronics, telecommunications and the like. We have no present intention of employing any women in headquarters except for the purpose of administration and instruction.

Mr. Noseworthy:

Would the minister consider putting on the record a break-down of these civil salaries and wages similar to the one he gave on the first item about which I asked? If we could have that information on the record before we reach these items,

[Mr. Green '

I believe we could examine them more intelligently. It is very easy for the minister to read them out.

Mr. Claxton:

Well, I could give the figures.

I shall give the sheet to Hansard so as to make sure they are correct.

Mr. Noseworthy:

My point is whether the minister would consider giving the same figures for the other sections, so that we may have them before us when we reach those parts of the estimates?

Mr. Claxton:

No, I think we had better

keep to the order of the discussion.

Mr. Noseworthy:

There is some $15 million under the navy. Would it be possible to have that on the record before we come to examine this item, so we could have some opportunity of examining the details in advance?

Mr. Drew:

Why would it not be convenient to give the salaries of each of the categories, and the number of employees in that category? After all that must be a matter of very simple record, and is a regular procedure. Can that not toe given?

Mr. Claxton:

Yes, it can be given if the

people of Canada want to pay for it. We could give it. There is no security attached to it. We have approximately 30,000 civilian employees in the department today and about 70,000 service personnel. We can give you their names, dates of birth and salaries if you want, but does it serve any useful purpose? I believe what the hon. member for York South would want would be a breakdown in respect of the navy, army and air force such as I gave for general administration. We will be glad to have that available as we reach each item.

Mr. Drew:

Do I understand that the minister thinks that is not a useful thing, to give the actual salaries opposite the category and the number employed?

Mr. Claxton:

They are exactly the same

as any other government service. I could read them out, but what advantage it would be to hon. members, I do not know. I could do it here, for example-

Mr. Warren:

Whoever reads them?

Mr. Claxton:

If we came to the navy, I

could easily say we have in the civil staff at Halifax, permanent, 89; temporary, 1,039; prevailing rates, 1,438; new continuing, 60; a total of 2,626. To draw off their actual pay would mean that we would have to draw each man's pay card, because a great number of them are prevailing rate employees, add it

up and put it into shape to put before the

committee. How that would help the committee, I do not know.