George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)
Well, Mr. Chairman, I must
coniess I am unable to understand the resistance of the minister as to something that is the regular practice in the other departments. Just as an example, let me refer to page 382 of the estimates, resources and development. On that page it starts, departmental administration, and that is what we are considering here. The first item is "One deputy minister and commissioner of the Northwest Territories, $15,000." Then it gives the "assistant deputy minister, planning; assistant deputy minister, administra-ton; director of administration." Then, you go on down through the whole list in which you have the details. For instance, there are thirteen clerks, grade 4, salaries from $2,568 to $2,904, and then the total is given, $31,227.
Then, a little further on there is another example, "Nine clerks, grade 2A, $1,560-$2,088;" and so on with the rest of the employees of the department. Then, you will find that where there are people employed in this department at casual rates, or at what are described as prevailing rates, they are lumped under the total sum and the number. It is either one of two things; either this book of estimates is brought together on a most inefficient and unnecessarily complicated basis by including these figures for other departments, or else there is some reason for it. It seems to me the reason for it is so the members of this house will have an idea of the salary level of the various categories of civilian employees. No matter what may apply to service employees, civilian employees are in exactly the same category in the Department of National Defence as any other department. Frankly, Mr. Chairman, I find it extremely difficult to believe these figures are not readily available, because I would imagine we would have had a report a long time ago from the Auditor General that the accounts of the Department of National Defence were kept on an entirely different basis than any other department if those figures are not available right now.