Mr. G. F. Higgins (St. John's East):

Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the parliamentary assistant of the Minister of Transport. Has the department received a protest from the Imperial Order of the Daughters of the Empire of Newfoundland with regard to the demolition of a building at Fort Amherst, St. John's? If so, what action is proposed in the matter?

Mr. W. M. Benidickson (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Transport):

thank the hon. member for giving me notice of his intention to ask this question. I find that the Imperial Order of the Daughters of the Empire have written to the department in that respect, as have Premier Smallwood and several others. The department has referred the problem to the national historic sites and monuments board, and will abide by the recommendation and decision of that board.

Mr. D. S. Harkness (Calgary East):

Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of National Defence tell us why it is that for the last two or three months a list of army promotions, retirements, transfers, etc., has not appeared in the Canada Gazette?

Interim, Supply

Hon. Brooke Claxton (Minister of National Defence):

I shall have to look into that, Mr. Speaker.

Hon. Alphonse Fournier (Minister of Public Works) moved

that the house go into committee of supply.

Motion agreed to and the house went into committee, Mr. Beaudoin in the chair.

Mr. Abbott moved:

Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $206,696,711.58, being one-twelfth of the amount of each of the several items (with the exception of items 62, 121. 204 and 470) to be voted, as set forth in the main estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 1952, laid before the House of Commons at the present session of parliament; and in addition thereto, a sum not exceeding $1,578,279.67, being one-twelfth of items 41, 86, 177 , 226 , 229, 231, 233, 235 , 238, 239, 328, 394, 426 , 456, of the said estimates be granted to His Majesty on account of the fiscal year ending March 31, 1952.

He said: Mr. Chairman, the bill to be founded on this resolution will provide for the usual one-twelfth of all the items to be voted in the main estimates for the fiscal year 1951-52, with the exception of items 62, 121, 204 and 470, on which eleven-twelfths have already been granted. An additional one-twelfth of certain special items to cover services of a seasonal nature on which heaviest payments fall due in the early part of the year is also requested. These items, as in the case of previous interim supply requests, are such items as the quality premiums on high-grade hog carcasses, administration costs, special expenditures of the Department of Mines and Technical Surveys in connection with geographical surveys, and similar expenses for the Department of Resources and Development, where the heavier part of the expenditures is made early in the year.

The form of the bill is exactly the same as the bill passed at this time last year and in previous years. It will provide for carrying oni the services of the government until the end of the month of June. The passing of this bill will not prejudice the rights and privileges of members to criticize and discuss any item in the estimates which will come up for consideration from time to time throughout the remainder of the session, and the usual undertaking is hereby given that such rights and privileges will be respected and will not be curtailed or restricted in any way as a result of the passing of this measure.

Mr. Graydon:

I did not rise on this question when the Speaker was in the chair, because I did not wish to provoke a debate. I wish, however, to ask a question which has been asked

Interim Supply

by others on previous occasions, about a matter on which I believe the committee ought to be brought up to date. There is keen interest throughout the country in the position in which Canada has found itself with respect to emergency famine relief for India. The matter has been mentioned in the house time after time, and the Prime Minister has indicated that he will announce the policy of the government at the appropriate time. There is growing concern on the part of the people in the question whether we are missing a challenging opportunity with respect to oriental relationships with the Occident. It has been emphasized more particularly during the last few days.

The fact that the Red Chinese government has now made some bilateral arrangement with Tibet, which borders on the northern provinces of India, and that the information concerning the possibility of a highway from the eastern boundaries of Russia to the Orient itself-

The Depuiy Chairman: Order. I believe the hon. member will realize that he cannot initiate a debate on that question on the resolution which is before the committee.

Mr. Graydon:

I am going to ask a question, but I wanted to give the basis upon which my question is founded. These facts being incontrovertible, and the urgency of the matter being apparent, will one of the members of the government make an announcement? Perhaps the Prime Minister is the one to whom I should have directed the question, but he seems to have been called out on some business at the moment. Perhaps some other member of the government would be in a position to say something about it, because time is running out. Canada should really make her position known. There have been some criticisms of other nations for not taking time by the forelock in connection with this problem, and I should like to have the ministry give this committee some information as to what the government intends to do to help India out of a very serious famine condition.

Mr. Macdonnell (Greenwood):

I want to say a word at this point concerning the somewhat abbreviated conversation I had yesterday with the minister. I want to raise once more this question of the almost fantastic surplus we have in the first month of the fiscal year, a surplus which would run over a billion dollars a year. I suggest to the minister that even after all the necessary adjustments are made, there may be considerable disturbance in the public mind. I observe that the press is already making certain references to it. So far as one may respectfully make suggestions to the press, I suggest there is now an

opportunity for the people of this country, if they are interested in this matter, to show it in no uncertain way. As the situation is now, there is every encouragement to the members of this house to press firmly the suggestion which has already been made, and with which the minister is familiar, that his addition to the sales tax is by no means necessary. I should like to warn the minister that he may hear more about that when the time comes.

Mr. Abbott:

Mr. Chairman, I shall answer that now. Yesterday, in answer to my hon. friend's question, I said that one swallow does not make a summer. If he were as familiar as I am with the proposed expenditures on defence for the coming year he would not be unduly concerned about the apparent surplus for one month out of the twelve. In case he has forgotten, I might point out to him that for the first month of the last fiscal year we had a surplus, speaking from memory, of between $80 million and $90 million. This year there is a surplus of receipts over expenditures of something in the order of $120 million. But again I emphasize the point that we are a long way from the end of this fiscal year, and many of the expenditures for our defence program are just beginning to come in. So far as I am concerned, I have nothing to apologize for and nothing to defend in the present position of my budgetary estimates.

Mr. Macdonnell (Greenwood):

My only comment on what the minister has said is that, in so far as he gives last year as a warranty for what is done this year, the answer is not a good one, because he proved to be terribly wrong last year.

Mr. Graydon:

May I have an answer to my question with respect to emergency famine relief in India?

Mr. Pearson:

Possibly I might say a word in reply to the question of the hon. gentleman, although I confess my inability to deal with this matter in all its details in. the absence of a little bit more notice than I have been given. The situation with regard to famine in India and Canada's possible contribution to the relief of that situation is briefly as follows.

As the committee knows, some weeks ago, when this matter was brought to our attention as a government, we indicated to the representative of the government of India that we would be in a position to make available to the government and the people of India low-grade wheat, No. 5 and No. 6, which was the only wheat at that time in our possession. That wheat would have been given to India as part of our contribution under the Colombo plan.

The reason we made that offer in that way at that time has, I think, already been given to the house. The Indian government at that time indicated that they would prefer not to accept the offer, because they had some doubts as to the advisability of wheat of that type getting into their rationing system. They thought that it might create misunderstanding thereby, and indicated that they would prefer to wait until better class wheat would be available from the next harvest. However, subsequently, we got in touch again with the acting Indian high commissioner in Ottawa, and with the Indian government through our representative in New Delhi, to inquire whether the Indian government would be inclined to receive as a gift-quite apart from anything we might do under the Colombo plan-a contribution of the only wheat which was available to us. We thought that if it were given in that form, it might be used as famine relief exclusively. It could go into the famine areas, be given to those suffering from famine, would not be included in the ration and might not create the difficulties that the Indian government had previously mentioned.