Mr. Speaker:

I have the honour to present the report of the special committee appointed on the 8th day of June, 1951, to consider with Mr. Speaker the matter of an amplification system for this house. The committee begs leave to report as follows:

Your committee has considered types of installation used by other parliamentary bodies and has come to the conclusion that a sound-reinforcing system similar to the one which is installed in the House of Commons chamber in the houses of parliament in London, England, known as a low level system, would be the most suitable for our chamber. This system is designed specifically so as to make it possible for everyone in the chamber to hear any member who may be speaking, and to have his voice reproduced in all sections of the house at the same level as the speaker's natural voice.

The conclusion which has been reached by the committee for the installation of this system in our chamber is in accordance with the opinion expressed by government officials who are recognized specialists in this type of work. Also the assistant chief engineer of the Ministry of Works in the United Kingdom has inspected this chamber and has reported favourably as to the use of a similar system.

The committee was informed that in the British house the equipment is on an annual rental basis operated by trained employees of the company, and that it has been found advantageous. The company renting the equipment is under contract to keep it in proper working order at all times, to replace any parts which may give out or need replacement, and to instal improved equipment as, if and when it comes on the market. In other words, the company is required to keep and to operate the whole installation at peak performance at all times at its own expense.

Your committee therefore recommends that a sound-reinforcing system, similar to the one in the House of Commons chamber at Westminster, should be installed in our chamber, and that appropriate action be taken accordingly.

Right Hon. L. S. St. Laurent (Prime Minister):

If I have the unanimous consent of hon. members I should like to move, seconded by the leader of the opposition (Mr. Drew):

That the report of the special committee appointed on the 8th of June to consider with Mr. Speaker the matter of an amplification system for this house, presented this day, be now concurred in.

Mr. George A. Drew (Leader of the Opposition):

Mr. Speaker, in supporting the

motion and hoping that there will be unanimous consent, may I say that I know that the Prime Minister, you, Mr. Speaker, and others have observed the system in operation in the British House of Commons. I think those who have will be pleased with the recommendation to adopt a system which has proved so entirely satisfactory, and which will carry the voice in a natural way without any of the mechanical disabilities that accompany some other systems.

Mr. Angus Maclnnis (Vancouver East):

Mr. Speaker, if there is no opposition from any other part of the house to the motion for concurrence in this report, there certainly will be none from this group. We want to see the matter proceeded with as quickly as possible, and are pleased to give unanimous consent.

Right Hon. L. S. St. Laurent (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, when I indicated to the house on June 4 that the government intended to propose a session of parliament to begin in October, I stated that in the next few weeks the government would have to give consideration to the recommendations of the royal commission on national development in the arts, letters and sciences, and that some legislation arising out of its recommendations would probably be proposed before the end of this year.

After a preliminary examination of the report the government has come to the conclusion that there are two matters on which interim action should be taken at the present session. One of these is broadcasting. It is intended to leave until the session to be held later this year the matter of changes of a permanent character in the legislation, but, as hon. members are aware, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation has for some time been faced with the serious problem of attempting to meet rising costs from a relatively fixed income. In order, therefore, to tide the corporation over until appropriate legislative provision can be considered, an interim grant will be proposed in the supplementary estimates shortly to be presented by the Minister of Finance. This grant will be

Arts, Letters and Sciences designed to cover the urgent requirements of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation for the rest of the present fiscal year.

The government has also reached the conclusion that it is in the national interest to take immediate action to assist the universities to perform functions which are quite essential to the country, and indeed to the proper administration of the government of the country. We are not yet in a position to ask parliament to accept any permanent scheme for this purpose, but we have decided that grants should be made available for the forthcoming academic year along lines recommended by the Massey commission. An item will, accordingly, be included in the supplementary estimates of the Minister of Finance of a sum approximately equal to fifty cents per capita of the present estimated population of the country.

It is intended that this amount should be divided among the provinces in proportion to their population, and that within provinces the division among institutions should, as the commission suggested, be in proportion to their enrolment of students at university level. Parliament will be asked to empower the governor in council to make regulations to ensure these ends and to enable the Minister of Finance to seek the advice and assistance of an advisory committee or committees to be drawn from the national conference of Canadian universities.

In making this announcement I feel I should emphasize that the federal action is intended to provide a necessary supplement to the assistance to universities already made available by the provincial governments, and it is our earnest hope that no provincial authorities will regard this federal contribution as in any way replacing their own obligations to the institutions which they have been supporting in the past.

These federal grants are designed, moreover, primarily to assist the universities to maintain the highly qualified staffs and the working conditions which are essential for the proper performance of their functions-in other words, to maintain quality rather than to increase existing facilities. It is our feeling that if in any province increased facilities involving increased capital outlays are required by the universities, these should be met from the usual sources rather than from federal assistance. The recommendations of the commission with respect to scholarships will be considered and dealt with later.

I might add that in making these recommendations to parliament it is intended to avoid any possible suggestion that we are interfering in any way with the policies

respecting education in the respective provinces. It is for that reason we wish the Minister of Finance to have the power to consult with and get assistance from the conference of Canadian universities for the purpose of drafting regulations that will provide for the allocation of this grant in proportion to the papulation of each province, and within each province in proportion to the number of enrolments of students of university rank in the institutions. I am sure there can be no suggestion that in doing this there will be any interference with the absolute autonomy of the provinces and the provincial institutions in the field of higher education.

Mr. George A. Drew (Leader of ihe Opposition):

Mr. Speaker, I am sure hon.

members generally will welcome any measure of assistance given in this way to the universities of Canada. In view of the fact that on behalf of the party I have the privilege to lead I proposed some time ago that these grants should be made as soon as possible, naturally we will welcome the grants to whatever extent they are made at this time.

I think there will also be general agreement with the view expressed by the Prime Minister (Mr. St.. Laurent) that a method should be adopted which will retain the complete jurisdiction of provincial authorities over education within the province. It will be necessary, of course, to recognize that this is only a temporary measure, because some recognized system will have to be established by which the amounts granted to the provinces will be related in the total to the requirements of higher education in this country.

There is a problem here which is not faced in the United Kingdom, but I would point out that there they have had for a great many years a system of university grants from the national treasury. Those grants are administered by the university grants committee, and are based not only upon the attendance at the universities but also upon the service they are performing in relation to the national development and cultural advancement of the country. It would not be simple or easy to have a similar system here, and perhaps it would not be desirable in view of the fact that education is under provincial jurisdiction. We have the advantage, however, of two bodies which can be of immense assistance in connection with the support of education, whether it be at university or secondary and primary school levels. We have a conference representative of the universities, and we also have the Canadian Education Association, which is an excellent example of the measure of co-operation that

can be established among the provinces in any field of common endeavour. At such time as it may be decided to extend still further the grants into the primary and secondary field of education, that body would be of great assistance in the advice and supervision it could extend. I feel sure that in this field, as well as in the field of universities, hon. members will agree that it is necessary to establish very clearly the jurisdiction of provincial governments.

So much for these grants to the universities.

I can only repeat that without being able to say how adequate or otherwise they may be, we will all welcome the statement that they will be made at this time without waiting for another session.

The Prime Minister has combined with the announcement with regard to grants to the universities the statement that there will be a supplementary estimate to provide additional funds for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. It may well be that that proposal will not meet with unanimity. Naturally, without knowing exactly the method by which the allocation will be made, it is not possible to consider the effect of this announcement, but I do point out at this time that this is not likely to facilitate the procedure in this house which many hon. members had hoped might lead to a fairly satisfactory disposition of some of the business now before us. Many hon. members will feel that the granting of additional money to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation without an examination of other aspects of this problem is something that they will not welcome. We all recognize that from its inception the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation has enjoyed certain monopolistic privileges which do not receive unanimous support. I certainly would not wish to leave the impression that when that subject comes forward there will be the unanimity that there is in the support for grants to universities.

Mr. R. R. Knight (Saskatoon):

Although

there is no motion before the house, Mr. Speaker, perhaps you will grant me the privilege of thanking the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) for the announcement he has made this morning concerning grants to universities. There may be some debate as to the method or basis upon which such grants should be made. I noticed no mention of an allotment of grants on the basis of need, but we will leave that for the moment.

The Prime Minister has taken a step in the right direction. I hope that as a result of this action the universities will be able to reduce their fees, so that a university education may not be denied to any deserving

NATO Forces Agreement student. I congratulate the Prime Minister and his government upon the step which they are now taking.

Mr. Solon E. Low (Peace River):

I am

quite sure I speak for my colleagues when 1 say that we are very happy that the government is taking this step now to provide some form of interim assistance to the universities. I believe it is timely, because the universities are probably making up their budgets for the next year and they will want to know just what they can count on by way of supply. I should like to say to the government that I look upon this as the first step in a program, which we hope will be implemented throughout the years, designed to give further aid to education, and not confined to the university level.

With respect to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, I suppose it is only natural that the government would want to provide them with some further measure of temporary relief. We agree that government policy is to help the C.B.C. to expand its facilities, and they should do what they can now. But we reserve the right to discuss fully and in detail what further assistance should be granted when the matter of the Massey report is brought before the house during the autumn session.

Mr. George A. Drew (Leader of the Opposition):

I am sure that the house will welcome this further evidence of increasing measures of co-operation between the North Atlantic treaty nations. I think also that there will be general acceptance of the Prime Minister's statement that we welcome evidence of the increasing integrated strength of the United Nations.

I do not wish to appear to use this announcement as a vehicle for remarks about another subject, but in view of the critical importance of another matter that has been discussed, may I, in welcoming the announcement of this agreement, express the hope that, through the good offices of General Eisenhower, there may also be unanimity in another field and that it will not be too long before we also hear the announcement of an agreement in regard to the standardization of small arms and field weapons.

Mr. L. D. Tremblay (Dorchesier) moved:

That the name of Mr. Conacher be substituted for that of Mr. Goode; that the name of Mr. Thomson be substituted for that of Mr. MacDougall; and that the name of Mr. Cannon be substituted for the name of Mr. Laing, on the standing committee on railways, canals and telegraph lines.

Motion, agreed to.