June 29, 1951

PC

Ellen Louks Fairclough

Progressive Conservative

Mrs. Fairclough:

Was that recently?

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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PC

Douglas Scott Harkness

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Harkness:

April 23.

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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LIB

Frederick Gordon Bradley (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Bradley:

Up to January 1 of this year.

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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PC

Ellen Louks Fairclough

Progressive Conservative

Mrs. Fairclough:

That is a whale of a lot lower than it is in Toronto and Hamilton.

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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PC

Douglas Scott Harkness

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Harkness:

The next question was:

Is it proposed to have sufficient employees to meet government printing at times of peak requirements?

The answer was:

No change is anticipated in present policy to maintain sufficient staff to take care of work which by its nature or because of circumstances must be produced in the department, and to meet unforeseen requirements.

Once again this was not an answer which meant anything. I would ask the minister what is meant by the expression "Work which by its nature or because of circumstances must be produced in the department". What sort of work does that cover?

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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LIB

Frederick Gordon Bradley (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Bradley:

That includes printing for parliament, including Hansard, the statutes and documents that, by their nature, have to be printed in secrecy.

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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PC

Douglas Scott Harkness

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Harkness:

Is the entire printing staff at the present time engaged in work of that nature? If not, what proportion of it is engaged in that kind of work?

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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LIB

Frederick Gordon Bradley (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Bradley:

During the session about 40 per cent of the staff goes on the work of the session. What would in the normal course be done by that 40 per cent is given to outside firms.

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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PC

Douglas Scott Harkness

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Harkness:

With the very considerable increase in the size of the printing bureau that is going to take place when they have

Supply-Public Printing and Stationery the new building, is the same policy to be followed of having enough people to carry on the normal government printing requirements, and then when parliament is meeting and the bureau has to turn out Hansard and other publications, the surplus is turned over to private printers?

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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LIB

Frederick Gordon Bradley (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Bradley:

It must be borne in mind that at the present time our operations are carried on in some sixteen buildings in various parts of the city. When we have all our operations under one roof we expect to make a considerable saving in that way.

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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PC

Douglas Scott Harkness

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Harkness:

What does the minister mean when he says that they expect to make a considerable saving? Is it a saving in manpower, money or time?

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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LIB

Frederick Gordon Bradley (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Bradley:

Among other things, the cost of administration. Surely it must be obvious to the hon. member that, when one has an undertaking dispersed in sixteen different places in the city, the overhead expenditures and various other costs must naturally be greater than if it were all under one roof.

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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PC

Douglas Scott Harkness

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Harkness:

That seems to be fairly obvious, that there might be a saving in that way. But I might say that most of the facts about this printing bureau are no more obvious to me than they appear to be to the minister.

After that I asked a question in regard to equipment:

What new equipment will be purchased for the composing room, press room, bindery and other mechanical departments.

I got the same type of answer that I got in connection with the other one, that because the completion of the new building is not expected for some time they could not say anything about it. But surely they have some idea of how much more space they have; surely they have some idea of the amount of new equipment which is going to go in.

I would ask this specific question: Are any new departments more than they have at the present time-that is, by way of colour departments, or anything else-going to be put in? Surely I can get a more definite answer than the one I have been given, namely that because the building is not completed they cannot tell us anything.

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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LIB

Frederick Gordon Bradley (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Bradley:

There are no new colour departments, or anything like that, in contemplation at the present time. We propose to move all our machinery to the new building, and all our operations will be carried on there. If and when we require new machinery it will have to be obtained.

After all, this is a growing nation, and the activities of every department of government

4974 HOUSE OF

Supply-Public Printing and Stationery must of necessity increase as the nation grows. Our printing bureau must grow accordingly. Furthermore it must be borne in mind that during the war a good deal of our machinery -and we have quite a bit of it-deteriorated. We were not able to replace it. We are gradually replacing it from time to time.

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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PC

Douglas Scott Harkness

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Harkness:

I still have not an answer as to how much new equipment they propose to secure.

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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LIB

Frederick Gordon Bradley (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Bradley:

The answer to that is that no man on earth can tell.

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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PC

Douglas Scott Harkness

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Harkness:

I would say the answer to it is that the minister does not know. It is not that no man on earth can tell. Certainly I think any man in the commercial printing business could give a pretty good guess.

Then I asked how printing bureau costs compared with prices charged by competitive private plants. The answer was that it varied on every job. However, in the answer the estimate is given that printing costs may vary from 35 per cent to 50 per cent less than the prices charged by commercial plants.

How was that percentage arrived at?

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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LIB

Frederick Gordon Bradley (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Bradley:

We have not the same administrative costs as the ordinary commercial firm would have. There is no charge for rent, light or anything of that kind. That is paid for out of the government grant.

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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PC

Douglas Scott Harkness

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Harkness:

But that does not explain this figure of from 35 per cent to 50 per cent less than the price charged by commercial plants. All the minister has said is something everyone knows. We know they do not have to pay rent. What I want to know is how they arrived at this percentage of 35 per cent to 50 per cent less. It might as well have been 75 per cent or 10 per cent, from the answer the minister has given thus far.

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
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LIB

Frederick Gordon Bradley (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Bradley:

It is utterly impossible to give an answer other than the one I have given. If the hon. member does not choose to understand it, I cannot help that. I have told him that there are certain charges which of necessity must enter into the costs of private firms which are not charged in our accounts here. We pay nothing for rent, light or power. We pay nothing for capital investment. These things are paid for by the government grant. Consequently our costs are less.

Topic:   "MUSICOLOGIST"
Subtopic:   USE OF WORD IN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS PRESS RELEASE
Sub-subtopic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Permalink

June 29, 1951