Mr. Speaker:

Yesterday, after prayers, the leader of the opposition raised a question of privilege and handed me a copy of the pamphlet to which he had made reference. He asked me to "give consideration to the course which should be followed in the circumstances". After examining the authorities, I find it is clear that it is not the function of the Speaker, nor is he empowered, to decide what should be done in matters of this kind.

Mr. George A. Drew (Leader of ihe Opposition):

Mr. Speaker, in following the procedure I did yesterday I was aware that proceedings are not initiated by the Speaker himself; but I followed that course so that I might bring to your attention as the Speaker of the house, and through you to the government, the nature of a pamphlet which reflected very seriously upon the Prime Minister of Canada (Mr. St. Laurent) and upon all members of the government. I recognize that for a procedure of this kind to be effective it must be initiated by the leader of the house or by a member of the government. I would hope that, with this information now before the house, the government would consider what steps should be taken. I would point out that, in addition to any other proceedings, there is the question of criminal libel. I leave the matter with the Prime Minister and the government. With the information that is before the house I would further suggest that while I certainly did not at the time approve, nor have I since approved, of the procedure of putting anyone in concentration camp without due process of law, nevertheless there were placed in concentration camps people who had said less to reflect on the institutions of government and of government itself in this country than in this particular case. I most earnestly hope that steps will be taken, and that on this particular occasion the effort to find Mr. Tim Buck will be more successful than was the case the last time.

Right Hon. L. S. St. Laurent (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, fortunately this

country is not at war at the present time and the Defence of Canada Regulations, which made it the duty of the Minister of Justice to place in internment camps anyone who might be a danger to Canadian institutions, are not in force at this moment.

This country is still functioning as a free country, and it is very difficult to use the powers of government or the processes of the courts against any political party and be sure that the line will be drawn and maintained at the proper place.

I have had some inquiries made about this pamphlet, which is a vicious thing-there is no doubt about that-but it is at the same time a colourful thing, something which I think for most Canadians carries with it its own antidote. I find that it does not appear to have been distributed through the mails nor to have been distributed in factories or plants. My information is that it made its first appearance on September 22 at a meeting called by the promoters of those so-called petitions for peace. It is unfortunate that they have placed themselves in the position where they can pretend to be advocating peace and in opposition to those they choose to describe as people who want war. I think that everyone in this country knows that there is no one in Canada who wants war, and when they try to create the contrary impression they are themselves providing an antidote for the attacks that they level against those who have the responsibility of public office at this time.

I am told that at this meeting in the city of Toronto there were about 1,700 people. A meeting of 1,700 people in the city of Toronto called by a group that is pretty generally recognized as having communist leanings is apt to comprise a pretty substantial portion of communists themselves, and 1,700 people in Toronto is not a very large meeting, as those of us who have attended meetings in Toronto very well know. Now, this was not handed out; it was offered for sale at five cents a copy, and there were a certain number of copies sold. We have not been able to ascertain that it has made its appearance anywhere else.

I have looked at it carefully. There might be grounds for prosecution for criminal libel, but I have practised law for thirty-six years and I have had something to do with quits a number of libel cases. Where I was acting for the plaintiff it was very seldom we

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Labour-Progressive Party reached a judgment without having come to feel that perhaps we had made a mistake by ever starting the thing.

I have been ten years in politics, myself, at this time and, fortunately, I have never had to start any libel proceedings. I do not know what the reaction would be of most cf those who bought this at five cents a copy at this meeting in Toronto on September 22; but I feel almost conceited enough to hope that possibly all there in that place, and almost anyone else who gets it, would feel as the leader of the opposition (Mr. Drew' has felt-whatever his disagreement may be with Mr. Pearson, with Mr. Claxton or with me on domestic policy-that this is an unfair attack.

Mr. Drew:

Mr. Speaker, to what has already been said I wish to add only this, that I was suggesting only that procedure be taken in a correct and legal manner. I was not suggesting for one moment-and I thought I had made that clear-that any emergency or other special powers be invoked beyond those which have been so well established in peacetime for many years. But I do wish to assure the Prime Minister that I have good reason to believe that this pamphlet has been distributed on a much wider basis than he has been informed. I shall be happy to communicate the information I have in that respect to the Minister of Justice (Mr. Garson), because I think I can say with fairly definite certainty that this has been distributed at certain plants, as well as among other people remote from that meeting.

Mr. John Decore (Vegreville):

Mr. Speaker,

I should like to ask a question of the Minister of Trade and Commerce. In view of the serious harvesting conditions and the difficulty in delivery of this year's crop, is the minister prepared to make a statement as to what steps, if any, the government proposes to take toward providing some measure of assistance to those farmers who have been unable to deliver their grain?

My second question is this: Is the minister now in a position to advise the house concerning final payment on the 1950-51 wheat deliveries?

Right Hon. C. D. Howe (Minister of Trade and Commerce):

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Vegreville gave me notice of his question-

Hear, hear.

Mr. Drew:

You mean he received a notice of your desire to speak.

Mr. Howe:

-and I am therefore taking this opportunity of making a short statement on the delivery position of western grains.

To judge from some of the statements made in this house and elsewhere, one might be led to the conclusion that there is a serious shortage of elevator space in all parts of the prairie provinces. In fact, this is by no means the case. According to the information available to me, there are still a large number of stations where producers' deliveries have not been sufficient to utilize the available space. I think it is likely that at least ninety per cent of the farmers who have been able to thresh their grain will be delivering more grain this autumn than they did in the same period a year ago. Just how much grain will be threshed and deliverable is, of course, another matter, which is beyond our control.

It is unfortunate that this condition of congestion should exist in any part of the west but it is important to realize that the condition is not general.

What is the explanation of the present situation? Let me give a brief review. It has not been possible to operate during the past three months on the basis of an equitable distribution of cars to all elevator points. Had available cars been supplied to country points when the elevators had only low-grade wheat to ship, this would have meant increasing the stocks of low-grade wheat at terminal points, particularly at the lakehead. Because there had already been a heavy movement of low-grade wheat to the lakehead, space in the terminals had become very restricted for moving through the heavy volume of the higher grades of wheat which have been sold for export during the autumn and winter months.

One need only look at the grades of wheat in store at the lakehead to appreciate the significance of the situation. On October 25 there were 51-1 million bushels of all grains in store, which is very little below the point of congestion, having regard to the wide range in grades of all grains being carried there. Of the 51-1 millions, there were 35 million bushels of wheat. Of this quantity there were 5-7 million bushels of grade No. 4 northern or better, and 29-3 million of other grades, including Nos. 5, 6 and feed. This is evidence of the very small stocks of milling grades of wheat that are being turned over at the lakehead in keeping up a heavy lake movement against our export commitments, and is the reason why we are giving preference to the shipment of milling grades from the country.

Let me give you the actual position on space in the country elevators. Total rated capacity of the country elevators is 286 million bushels. Usually 10 per cent of this figure is deducted to arrive at the net working space in the elevators. Thus there are 257 million bushels of net space. At July 31, 1951, there were 100 million bushels of grain in store, leaving 157 million bushels of space available for the delivery of grain. From August 1 to October 25, total grain deliveries to elevators amounted to 195 million bushels, and rail shipments of grain from country elevators amounted to 148 million bushels. Thus there was of last week end 110 million bushels of rated space still available for the receipt of grain. It must be appreciated, however, that owing to the heavy moisture content of much of the new crop grain it may not be possible to utilize all the temporary annex space.

To demonstrate the very good over-all situation in regard to space, in one week ending October 18 a record weekly delivery of 43-7 million bushels was established for wheat, in addition to the delivery of over 10 million bushels of other grains in the same week. That is the largest delivery in one week on record.

With the car supply running at its present rate another 80 to 90 million bushels of grain will have been moved from country elevators between October 25 and the close of navigation, so that this space of approximately 90 millions which will be developed in addition to the 110 million bushels of rated space now available will amount to about 200 million bushels of rated space.

Again I mention that if the car supply could be equitably distributed there would be no serious trouble at individual points. I would like now to read a statement issued by the Canadian wheat board on October 16:

The Canadian wheat board today announced that, with the approval of the transport controller, the railways had been requested to concentrate their efforts on the prompt shipment of milling grades of wheat to Vancouver and to the lakehead.

With only about six to seven weeks remaining before the normal close of navigation on. the great lakes, a major effort must now be made to move as much wheat as possible even though this means that the railways will concentrate for the time being on nearby stocks and the fastest possible turn around of cars.

"With the prolonged delay in harvesting and the resultant shortage of supplies of milling grades of wheat in eastern positions and at the Pacific coast, we have asked the railways to concentrate on getting the largest possible quantity of wheat to the lakehead and to the Pacific coast in the next six weeks," stated George Mclvor, chief commissioner, the Canadian wheat board, today. This undoubtedly means that the railway's for the time being will concentrate on shipping the most accessible stocks of wheat now in country elevators.

Mr. Mclvor pointed out that this was the second emergency action taken to meet the situation

Wheat and Coarse Grains

created by the long delay in harvesting operations and the urgent necessity of getting stocks of milling wheat into forward positions to meet large commitments and to provide Canadian mills with their requirements. The first emergency action was taken on October 3, 1951, when delivery quotas on high-grade milling wheats were temporarily suspended in order to augment supplies of wheat in country elevators to permit the most effective use of available transportation.

Mr. Mclvor stated that the board was reluctant to seek the approval of the transport controller for a concentrated movement at this time. He pointed out that with good crops in most areas of the prairie provinces, the board would have preferred the widest possible and most equitable distribution of cars at this time of the year, and this would have been possible had harvesting proceeded normally from mid-August onward. However, with harvesting delayed from six to eight weeks over most areas in the prairie provinces, time is now running out and there is no alternative to an immediate emergency shipping program if sales commitments for the fall months are to be met.

It is not unusual in late October and November of each year for the railways to concentrate on the shortest hauls in order to get a maximum quantity of grain in eastern positions to take care of the autumn and winter export movement, as well as domestic requirements, after navigation is closed on the great lakes. As soon as navigation has closed it is the intention to direct cars to the points which, because of their low-grade stocks, or their distance from the Pacific coast or the lakehead, have had an inadequate car supply up until now.

The government has been giving the most careful consideration to all aspects of the grain situation in western Canada. The brief statement I have given indicates the nature of the problem and what is being done to deal with it. It should not be overlooked that within the next few weeks some $100 million will have been distributed to western farmers by way of participation payments on last year's crops of wheat, oats and barley. These payments, incidentally, will be of substantial help not only to those farmers who find their delivery points temporarily congested, but to that much greater number of producers who because of exceptionally bad weather this autumn have not yet been able to thresh their crops. Whether it will be necessary to provide for a system of advances on farm-stored grain, I am not yet in a position to say. As I have indicated, the need: for such advances is not a general one and would be of benefit only to a relatively small proportion of producers. There is also the usual kind of credit which would I am sure continue to be available to farmers who have grain to deliver but who must hold it somewhat longer than usual. However, the government is keeping the situation under careful review and has not ruled out the possibility of action along 'the lines mentioned.

Wheat and Coarse Grains

Mr. Argue:

I wonder if I might ask the minister a supplementary question. Is anything being done to see that Saskatchewan gets its fair proportion of the box cars available? Most of these cars are going to Manitoba and Alberta.

Mr. Howe:

That is true, but I can assure my hon. friend that at the close of navigation the points that are now being served and are congested due to the storage of low-grade grain will receive attention. After the close of navigation the effort will be concentrated on permitting grain to be moved at those congested points, which amount to about 10 per cent of the total, and which have not been receiving their share of cars up to the present time.

Mr. Diefenbaker:

I should like to direct a further question to the minister. What is the position at the head of the lakes as to grain delivery and what did the minister find as a result of his recent visit as to the probability of grain being moved forward with greater speed than heretofore? In connection with the situation in Saskatchewan, did not the minister receive a telegram within the last few days to the effect that some 528 pool elevators in Saskatchewan are plugged, the great majority being on Canadian Pacific lines? If he did, what consideration is the controller giving to assuring a more equitable distribution of cars to Canadian Pacific lines? I am not allowed to debate the matter, but the elevators on Canadian Pacific lines have not been receiving their fair share of the available cars.

Mr. Howe:

I received a detailed statement from the pool about a week ago giving the number of elevators that are congested and I can assure my hon. friend that it was only a small fraction of 528.

Mr. Diefenbaker:

It is 528.

Mr. Howe:

Who signed the wire that my hon. friend has in his hand?

Mr. Diefenbaker:

According to the Western Producer the Saskatchewan wheat pool wired the minister last Friday advising him of this situation.