November 15, 1951

PC

James MacKerras Macdonnell

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Macdonnell (Greenwood):

Did the parliamentary assistant say that they were using mortality tables of 1948?

Topic:   A FEW EXAMPLES SHOWING THE MONTHLY PREMIUM REQUIRED TO PURCHASE A LEVEL ANNUITY FOR LIFE COMMENCING AT AGE 65 MALES, 60 FEMALES, COMPARED WITH THE MONTHLY PREMIUM NECESSARY TO PRODUCE ANNUITIES OF THE SAME AMOUNT BUT WHICH REDUCE AT AGE 70 BY THE AMOUNT OF THE OLD AGE SECURITY ($40 PER MONTH.
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LIB

Paul-Émile Côté (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Mr. Cote (Verdun-La Salle):

I referred to the mortality tables which were put into effect in April 1948 when the changes in the cost of annuity contracts were made.

Topic:   A FEW EXAMPLES SHOWING THE MONTHLY PREMIUM REQUIRED TO PURCHASE A LEVEL ANNUITY FOR LIFE COMMENCING AT AGE 65 MALES, 60 FEMALES, COMPARED WITH THE MONTHLY PREMIUM NECESSARY TO PRODUCE ANNUITIES OF THE SAME AMOUNT BUT WHICH REDUCE AT AGE 70 BY THE AMOUNT OF THE OLD AGE SECURITY ($40 PER MONTH.
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CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knowles:

With respect to the matter that has just been under discussion, is it clear that these reduced rates, one-third less or one-quarter less, will be level rates for

the whole time a person is buying an annuity? In other words, when you take out an annuity under this new plan you stipulate that you want the kind that will be reduced by a certain amount at age 70 and you pay a level premium across the years accordingly.

Topic:   A FEW EXAMPLES SHOWING THE MONTHLY PREMIUM REQUIRED TO PURCHASE A LEVEL ANNUITY FOR LIFE COMMENCING AT AGE 65 MALES, 60 FEMALES, COMPARED WITH THE MONTHLY PREMIUM NECESSARY TO PRODUCE ANNUITIES OF THE SAME AMOUNT BUT WHICH REDUCE AT AGE 70 BY THE AMOUNT OF THE OLD AGE SECURITY ($40 PER MONTH.
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PC

Charles Delmar Coyle

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Cole (Verdun-La Salle):

Yes, it will be so. The stipulation in the contract will provide that the higher amount of the annuity will mature at 65 and will be payable up to 70 from which time the annuity payable will be reduced by $40. I do not know exactly how that will be put in writing in the contract but that will be the meaning of any phraseology that will be adopted.

Resolution reported, read the second time and concurred in.

Mr. Fournier, Hull (for Mr. Gregg) thereupon moved for leave to introduce Bill No. 23, to amend the Government Annuities Act.

Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.

Topic:   A FEW EXAMPLES SHOWING THE MONTHLY PREMIUM REQUIRED TO PURCHASE A LEVEL ANNUITY FOR LIFE COMMENCING AT AGE 65 MALES, 60 FEMALES, COMPARED WITH THE MONTHLY PREMIUM NECESSARY TO PRODUCE ANNUITIES OF THE SAME AMOUNT BUT WHICH REDUCE AT AGE 70 BY THE AMOUNT OF THE OLD AGE SECURITY ($40 PER MONTH.
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PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY ACT

AMENDMENT PROVIDING FOR ADVANCES TO KING'S PRINTER FOR PURCHASE OF MATERIALS, ETC.


The house resumed, from Tuesday, October 30, consideration of the motion of Mr. Bradley that the house go into committee to consider the following resolution: That it is expedient to amend the Public Printing and Stationery Act in relation to advances authorized to be made to the king's printer for the purchase of materials to execute orders and requisitions and payment of wages, and to provide that the total amount of such outstanding advances shall at no time exceed the sum of four million dollars. Motion agreed to and the house went into committee, Mr. Dion in the chair.


CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knowles:

The other night, when this resolution was under discussion at the stage with Mr. Speaker in the chair, a few remarks were exchanged between the hon. member for Temiscouata and myself. I am sorry he is not present. Perhaps my saying that will result in word getting to him and he will appear. Then we can have some more exchanges and that will make it more interesting. At any rate, since that debate the hon. member for Temiscouata has received a letter signed by the president and the secretary of the Ottawa typographical union. The letter includes a paragraph in which the officers of the union indicated to the hon. member for Temiscouata that they were sending me a copy of the letter. To continue the story of this courtesy, I may say that when the hon. member for Temiscouata

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENT PROVIDING FOR ADVANCES TO KING'S PRINTER FOR PURCHASE OF MATERIALS, ETC.
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IS. 1951


replied to this letter he furnished the officers of the union with a copy of his letter so they could give it to me. Therefore everybody knows what is going on and it is all quite clear.


?

An hon. Member:

Confusion compounded.

Topic:   IS. 1951
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CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knowles:

Topic:   IS. 1951
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LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. Pouliot:

I never said a word about the forty-hour week. I challenge the hon. gentleman to quote anything about it, and moreover I shall ask him to proceed, although he will dislike it, as a lawyer would in submitting his case. In the first place, let him read what I said in the house. Let him read the letters and other papers that were sent to me by Mr. LeBlanc of the printers' union. Let him read a copy of my answer, and I shall send a copy of my answer to Mr. LeBlanc for the benefit of the hon. gentleman; let him read the whole story and then we shall argue it afterwards. I am in a position to argue with him, because I have union men in my county. I tell them very often that I have to fight the union to protect them. They come and say "Hurrah, boy, that is true".

Topic:   IS. 1951
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CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knowles:

I predicted earlier that this discussion would be a lot more interesting if the hon. member were here-

Topic:   IS. 1951
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LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. Pouliot:

I thought the hon. gentleman would be satisfied with my answer. I never thought he would waste the time of the house with that, but if he is willing to engage in a discussion with me I am ready to answer him point by point.

Topic:   IS. 1951
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LIB

Édouard-Gabriel Rinfret (Postmaster General)

Liberal

Mr. Rinfret:

Perhaps I should interrupt at this point. All this discussion might be very interesting, but Hansard has been corrected as to certain points, and I submit this discussion is out of order. We are discussing in committee a resolution asking for an increase in the revolving fund of the printing bureau from $2 million to $4 million. I do not see what the wages paid at the printing bureau have to do with this matter.

Topic:   IS. 1951
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CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knowles:

On that point of order, I might say there is a good deal of merit in what the Postmaster General says. The fact of the matter is that whether we were in order or out of order, we got into this discussion the other night. As I said earlier, the members of this union were anxious to have corrected the three points that were made in the member's speech in the house. I was setting out to do that. I have dealt with two of them, and in a moment I shall be finished with the third one. I shall go so far as to admit that perhaps the Postmaster General is correct, and if we had not got started on it the whole thing would be out of order. Since we have gone this far, and since what amounts to a point of privilege has come up, I feel it is only fair to these men, who feel that they were misrepresented by a speech in the house, that their answer should be made.

Topic:   IS. 1951
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LIB
CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knowles:

May I say to the hon. member for Temiscouata, as other members who were here at the time will bear me out, that I indicated to the committee that the union, in writing to the hon. member, included in their letter a paragraph to the effect that they were sending me a copy of the letter. He returned the courtesy by giving them a copy of his letter so they could give it to me. Both of us, therefore, have all the documents.

Topic:   IS. 1951
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LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. Pouliot:

They would have sent it to the hon. gentleman just the same, because they must share his policy. It was to save them the trouble that I sent the additional copy.

Topic:   IS. 1951
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November 15, 1951